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Also, anybody laugh when they see Jim Courier doing on-court interviews?
Last, what does Bodo mean by "real or imagined integrity of the game"?
Saturday, January 28, 2012
Open Thread: Aussie Open Final (Updated with more pictures)
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Also, anybody laugh when they see Jim Courier doing on-court interviews?
Last, what does Bodo mean by "real or imagined integrity of the game"?
Also, anybody laugh when they see Jim Courier doing on-court interviews?
Last, what does Bodo mean by "real or imagined integrity of the game"?
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As a libertarian, I would say that Bodo should learn what freedom of association is. It's only one of the most fundamental concepts in libertarian philosophy. Basically, if you freely choose to be part of an association, in this case the ITF, then you must abide by the rules they impose. If you don't like the situation, then you are free to leave anytime that you want. If this was the government imposing these requirements on Murray, Bodo might have a point, but the ITF is a private organization and has no power to make people take a drug test against their will unless they have themselves chosen to make themselves subject to the ITF's laws.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone see the recent comments by the Bryan Brothers about behind the scenes stuff with Rafa? Here's a quote that I found to be totally nonsensical:
ReplyDeleteA couple of years ago, we saw him on a flight from Madrid to Rome. He came on with a bag of McDonald's. He's an incredible athlete. You see him at breakfast eating chocolate doughnuts. He must just be an amazing genetic specimen.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/01/4/Australian-Open-Day-13-Diary-Bryans-Dish-Dirt.aspx
So Rafa is the amazing genetic specimen who can hit countless intense reverse forehands (@4000 RPMs of ball spin) for hours on court against R.Fed. I play recreational tennis and hitting reverse forehands is rather exhausting. So if Rafa can eat fast food plus chocolate doughnuts and easily outperform R.Fed who has the best training millions of dollars can buy, he must be one hell of an amazing genetic specimen. Either that or the Bryans are trying to tell the world in a sly, humorous way that the suspicions of Rafa doping are founded.
Doubt that the Brayns are trying to send a code message as probably they use HGH as well.
DeleteAnyways it's gonna be fun watching Djokovic win his 2nd 5 h match in a row.
I really don't think the Bryans dope illegally. The twins are strong but their physiques are consistent with decent training and dietary supplements IMO. Besides, they don't make the huge dollars in doubles tennis compared to the singles players. I may be wrong, but I won't call someone a doper unless I am absolutely sure of it.
DeleteDjokovic is like a Duracel bunny on speed. He just keeps running and running and running and running. How anyone can think that he's clean is seriously beyond me. And at the upcoming French Open, he's gonna do what not even Federer could do: Win all 4 Grand Slams in a row. What a farce.
ReplyDeleterod laver won all 4 slams twice...don budge once...
Deleteguess they were the biggest dopers in the history of tennis therefore...now doing it without dope who can call them a farce...shud be stripped of their titles...djoker shud take better dope he doesnt have enuf muscles yet to be called "of good doping standard"
Dopervic is greedy but not that dumb. Winning all four slams in one year as doped up as he is would force the ITF and/or ATP to prove that he is clean. The journalists won't raise the flag, but there are enough tennis purists out there who are wealthy or prominent people who would not want tennis legacy to be soiled by a huge doping scandal. If people like Rod Laver, Roy Emerson, or Billie Jean King decide to start speaking out, it won't be so easy to ignore/mock them like they did Yannick Noah. The tennis legends have been silent thus far because they too profit from the status quo but I don't think that they would tolerate an obvious doper winning the Grand Slam and dragging tennis into negative spotlights. If too many people start asking too many questions, what happened in Major League baseball could happen in tennis.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWell, to me it is a farce that a guy like Djokovic, who was never even considered as a potential all-time great in his youth and where all experts agreed that he had maxed out on his potential as a solid number 3 behind Federer and Nadal, will now go on to do what not even all-time greats like Federer or Sampras were able to achieve: Win the Grand Slam. And that is without taking the ridiculous fashion he's doing it in into consideration. I don't know what kind of drug cocktail Novak's taking, but there's no doubt in my mind that he's the biggest doper on tour right now.
DeleteI disagree! Nadal probably still takes that title. That schwarzenegger-like near-exploding left arm, those gallons of gushing sweat, the way he carries on after winning a big point, the inhuman ability to impress that much strength with that much spin from such impossible angles, the leg work, it all just oozes HGH, blood transfusions, and rivers of (injected) testosterone. Dopovic is more naturally gifted, and when equally/similarly doped, he beats Nadal (which, I suspect, is what's about to happen). Fuentes, DO TALK!
Deletehmm i see people getting jealous having found bigger dopers than them...mr shadow cud u please update the latest list of tennis tour dopers by rank and amount of dope used...cheers
DeleteSNR,
ReplyDeleteForget about Bodo, please. He is either a moron or he is corrupt. This is not the type of person who can advance your fight for clean tennis.
Get some serious newspaper and a journalist who has nothing to gain from the sport industry to bring this into the open.
Watching the semifinals and the finals is sickening. The game is a big farce. Djokovic pretending to have foot, breathing etc problems, while knowing he could play on for 10 hours, and Nadal, the most dishonest tennis player, who showed him the way, by stealing 10 (or 11?) grand slams thanks to drug-enduced endurance (-> confidence).
It is sickening listening to the commentators of Euro Sports talking about what a great fighter Nadal is, I feel like puking every single time that they start with the BS. I hate Djokovic but less that this damn liar, who has cheated his way to 10 slams- yes 10 slams shame on tennis and the circus it has become.
ReplyDeleteThe commentator on the feed I was watching was repeatedly marveling about the 'incredible fitness and stamina' of both Nadal and Djokovic. It became so bad that I had to mute him halfway through the third set.
DeleteAs a cycling fan I can tell you that Eurosport is one of the biggest omerta upholders in the media. Their attitude to doping is that only certain countries dope and never ever 'popular' riders.
DeleteThe hilarious thing was how they continue to fawn over every doper under the sun but waste no time putting the boot in on anyone who blows the whistle.
What you're saying about Eurosport is absolutely true. I noticed the same thing about their Biathlon coverage. The results of Russian athletes are always being put into question, but then there are German athletes like Magdalena Neuner, who are running circles around the competition, and they're 100% free of suspicion.
Delete" I hate Djokovic but less that this damn liar, who has cheated his way to 10 slams- yes 10 slams shame on tennis and the circus it has become."
DeleteDon't worry, Djuicerbitch will soon have 10 slams, and more.
"Don't worry, Djuicerbitch will soon have 10 slams, and more."
DeleteYup. He will have that and the Grand Slam. Or make that the Golden Slam considering that this is a Olympic year.
GutterDaddy what to do whom to support...reading ya juicy comments am sure u can beat djuicerbitch with ur eyes closed and yo incredible juice...lemme know wen u start playin will route for u and ur juice...
Deletelong live
The thing that pisses me off about Eurosport is that when doper X does get popped they then act as though they'd known all along that the rider was charging. Completely ignoring that prior to the rider getting popped they'd spent days fawning over him and about how great he is.
DeleteThat said the specialist cycling press is even worse for that.
Reading SI and Yahoo after today reminded me of cycling coverage 1999-2005.
You might be right Gutter but Djokovic can at least say that he won a Slam the legal way, Nadal could barely make to the Top-50 without his dope and I'm being generous with him.
DeleteAnyway tennis is a circus nowadays.
Wonder how many hours can these 2 play untill cramping. Probably 24-36.
ReplyDeleteI think it's clear that neither man has been doping and I'm not sure where all these wild implications come from. The fact that testing in tennis is so lax and players seem to be showing greater powers of recuperation than ever before isn't in the slightest bit suspi... oh SNAP!
DeleteIf this goes 5 sets, it's probably going to last 5.5 hours.
ReplyDeleteNadulls stays 5 m behind the baseline and puts everything back on court. It's ridicoulous.
ReplyDeleteWatching Nadal's facial expressions after each point I am convinced I am seeing a psychologically disturbed person. There is only one thing that matters in this man's life and he will do anything to achieve it. Anything. This is not sport - not the way he plays it. And it is only possible for him if he can summon unlimited physical resources. it appears he has them. Well done, Uncle Toni.
ReplyDeleteI think there simply isn't a real Rafael Nadal anymore under all those layers of steroids and all the brainwashing Uncle Toni put him through to turn him into a robotic winning machine.
DeleteThere probably wasn't ever much of a person there to begin with, but whatever there was appears to be on the verge of collapse after decades of the juice and Toni's constant mindfucking.
The only thing that matters to him, the only thought that remains clear in his PED-induced haze, is to obey his Uncle Toni, whatever the cost to himself.
Racehorses are often trained to run through the infliction of pain via whips, spurs, electric shocks. They are fitted with blinders so they see nothing but the race ahead of them, drugged with PEDs to make them strong and painkillers to mask injury, and then they're forced to race like their lives depended on it.
It was only a matter of time before someone had the idea to apply the same training principles to human beings. Rafael Nadal is the result.
I have no doubt the real Rafael Nadal story (not the joke "autobiography" that was obviously written by Team Nadal's PR men) will turn out to be the story of how Toni Nadal engineered a champion tennis player through methods that would be called torture when used on animals, let alone human beings.
There is no "Rafa": "Rafa" is wholly a creation of media flacks that is used to keep the fans entertained and their attention diverted from what's really going on. He doesn't exist.
There is only Toni Nadal and the human being that he ruthlessly bent, broke, and reshaped into his instrument, at a horrendous human cost. And the greedy bastards who profited handsomely from it.
The ATP will have a lot to answer for, and a lot of blood on their hands. How could they let such a thing happen? How could the fans? Did no one think to ask the simplest questions?
We know the answers to all those questions. Otherwise, this blog wouldn't exist.
Great observation, demisphere.
DeleteWell said, demisphere. Uncle Toni constantly plays online chess and clearly has no qualms about sacrificing pawns.
DeleteFor me the most glaring evidence of Nadope's doping (not to mention Dopervic's too) comes towards the end of the year, when he is forced to cycle down and revert to being almost human - and at the WTF (thank God for that event!) either be unable to take a set off anyone (2009) or be thrashed 63 60 by Federer (2011). And that is why he makes all that fuss over the length of the season: the longer it is, the more matches he might have to play - and abjectly lose - in his undoped state. Meanwhile Murray plays injured/tired in Oct/Nov and Dopervic makes sure he doesn't survive his WTF group to meet the Fed. Federer knows this, I am certain. While Fed undoubtedly does have the interests of lower-ranked players at heart in not wanting to shorten the season and lessen their chances, his secondary motive is surely to avoid playing the dopers' selfish little game.
Demisphere,
DeleteGreat post! Uncle Toni reminds me so much of Stefano Capriati (grooming his daughter at a really young age to be the next Chrissy Evert). But the difference of course, was that Capriati could not handle being a tennis winning machine and was mentally very fragile.
I imagine that Nadal will have a lot of difficulty after his career ends.
You guys are way too far over into tinfoil hat land regarding Nadal, and as such are the type of people who give this site and issue a bad name. I am not disputing Nadal's possible steroid use, but when you go as far over the top as this, you just come across as embittered Federer fans who can't stand the fact of Nadal's domination of your hero. Sorry, but that's the truth -- you're not really interested in the wider issue of doping in tennis. Just in Nadal, and bringing down Nadal. And the closer Djoker (also in my view very suspicious) gets to Federer in the slam count, I suspect the more of a target he'll become as well.
Deletewow Demisphere, you almost make me feel sorry for Nadull.
DeleteThe crowd is more tired than these 2 doppers.
ReplyDelete4hrs55 .... no sign of Djoko slowing down at all.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, maybe there is one.
DeletePerhaps it's just me, but I am bit suspicious about this ice towel nadal is putting on his shoulders. Is it just BS, or could there also be a mike in it. During the breaks, I don't see Toni Nadal in the box.
ReplyDeleteRemember, Nadal has admitted to relying on advices from his uncle's during the games (e.g. Wimbledon).
Also, regarding drinks, Toni handed some down to the ball boys during the quarterfinals, so it's not only Murray and Lendl.
That's pretty common, rackets, food, I've even seen shirts and shoes coming from trainers.
DeleteWould be pretty easy to slip a note in there I guess, although risky.
Tinfoil hat time.
Deletespeaker, rather than mike, sorry
ReplyDeleteNadal's dope has the upper hand now, sad-sad
ReplyDeleteDjokovic is dead man walking. Nadal fresh as a daisy.
ReplyDeleteDjokovic is basically repeating what Nadal himself did here. The insanely long 5 setter against Verdasco, then two days later another 5 setter in the final.
ReplyDeleteDifference is, the Nadal-Fed final only went 4hrs19. This is 5hrs35 and still sprinting around.
Very true indeed Arf, what a shame for the sport and also shame on the Aussie fans they seem to be delighted with this horrid performance, maybe it has something to do with the Australian dope history.
DeleteNadal/Fed lasted 4h19m because Federer actually plays within the allotted time between serves....Nadal and Djokovic don't. Average today was over 35 sec for Nadal....
Deletelol, now even Nadal is tiring.
ReplyDeleteDjokovic has physically shattered Ferrer, then done the same to Murray in 5hrs, now nearing 6hrs of play and Nadal is running out of gas too.
Yet on and on Duracell Djokovic goes.
Djoper is acting "while being dead man walking" he won 3 games in row and its 5-5
ReplyDeletelies lies & lies
I don't think he's faking it. IT just something aboout the drugs he's taking. ISner does the same he looks dead and then 2 hours later he's running better and better.
ReplyDeletefresh as daisy Djoper is 6-5 with break , running left & right ,hitting ball hard as in 1st set.....
ReplyDeleteI've never seen anything like it, for sure. the US Open final was already something, but compared to this, it looks like a warm-up.
ReplyDeleteIs there any ball Nadal can't get back on court?
ReplyDeleteI've never seen anything like this either. Both these guys should quit tennis and run marathons, especially Djokovic
ReplyDeleteAnd Djokovic makes it seven in a row against the freak of nature ! I'm laughing like mad ! If after that the traffic on this blog doesn't explode, I'm becoming a monk.
ReplyDeleteActually Nadal run more, Djokovic had the upper hand in the rally most of the time.
ReplyDeleteBTW yesterday the ES commentator said the australian tv has a system that lets you know how much players have run in terms of kms. Would be intresting to know.
Yeah, any event with Hawkeye can produce that (and pretty much any other stat you can to imagine).
Delete18 months ago he lost 2 sets up to Jurgen Melzer, today he pulls of the most insane athletic accomplishment in Tennis history.
ReplyDeleteDoes seem like an eternity ago he was the weakling of the tour, retiring because of sore throats and so on.
ReplyDeleteHe just experienced the famous transformation into a freak of nature, which befalls many tennis players at one or other point in their career. It's kind of a peculiar process, but famous biologists or geneticists like Steve Tignor, Peter Bodo or any TV commenter will tell you there is absolutely nothing abnormal to it. Has to do with the genes, and with the training, and maybe with the fact that Djokovic's great-great-uncle was a lumberjack in the mountains of Serbia and was huge, according to the other villagers.
ReplyDeleteWell, anyway, there it is. Just enjoy the show.
We should be used to this kind of display by now but I found myself watching in complete disbelief at what those players were doing out there. Djokovic coming back from the dead and crushing winners and Nadal pounding every ball back into court from 5m behind the baseline deep into the 5th set. Every rally could have induced a heart attack in any normal person. But not these guys. Nearly 6 hours of unrelenting driving of the ball with every part of the court being covered. This so bears such little resemblance to the game called tennis as I remember it that I feel there should be a new category of event for matches such as this. If they were watching, I can see Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong smirking knowingly. Yeah, welcome to the club, Rafa and Novak..
ReplyDeleteGood lord this sport has turned shameful. Both of these guys are just full of drugs. Did you people see Novak take off his shirt and scream like some WWF manroid? OMG. The days are past where sports are pure. I'd rather play a videogame then have to drug up and compete like they do now.
ReplyDeleteThis match was the biggest farce I've ever witnessed. This puts the WWE and MMA to shame. Anyone with half a brain knew that Djokovic would recover in time for this final. This was nearly a 6 hour match and both guys were still fresh and probably could have played five more sets. I bet cyclists and track and fielders wish they had taken up tennis where you can be an absolute insane doper and not only are you never caught doping, the powers that be actively look the other way.
ReplyDeleteNo one and I mean no one, can look at me with a straight face and tell me these two aren't doping.
This match should be a real eye opener for any remaining skeptic on the issue of doping in tennis. One has to wonder if their keeling over during the ceremony was real or staged.
ReplyDeleteRoddick and El Ayanoui played to 21-19 in the 5th set at the 2003 Australian Open, and their match was almost an hour shorter than this one.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYeah, and I still remember how gassed Roddick was afterwards. He was dead on his feet in his semifinal match against Schuettler, like any normal human being would be. But not Nadal or Djokovic. These 2 could go out on the court tomorrow or the day after tomorrow and easily play another 5-setter.
DeleteAnd what shouldn't be forgotten is that Roddick was a completely different player back then. He was a power player who was trying to keep points short and went constantly for broke on his serve and forehand. The physicality of that match doesn't in any way compare to the farce of a match that we've seen between Nadal and Djokovic today or Djokovic and Murray on Friday.
Djokovic is a testament to the power of modern science. Many have
ReplyDeleteaccused Nadal of juicing, but nobody has juiced quite so blatantly as
Novak. This is a guy who went from chronic fatigue tank artist to
superman in the space of a couple of months after he lost to Nadal in
the 2010 US Open final--where he was still gassed TWO DAYS after
playing a 5 setter against Federer. Now he plays back-to-back 5
setters and is fresh as a daisy. If it seems too good to be true, it
almost always is.
What a joke tennis has become.
2009 Australian Open: Djokovic retires during his fourth set of his fourth round match against Roddick because the brutal conditions are too much for him.
ReplyDelete2011 Australian Open: Djokovic plays 11 hours of unbelievably energetic tennis in back to back matches in brutal conditions.
It's almost like he's a completely different person.
Just remove gluten and add .....
ReplyDeleteIt seemed like unnatural tennis out there - from two guys who hardly showed an inkling of fatigue - especially Djokovic playing 11 hours of intense tennis in 48 hours.
ReplyDeleteThe commentators were in adulation over the super fitness of both players - but I really hope there are some that are questioning this new "era" of tennis and why the players are showing super human levels of endurance and play.
If indeed doping is going on, you would hope that a group of clean players would be a voice to what is going on. Although in the case of many uncomfortable truths, often the organisation concerned turns a blind eye or shoves it under the carpet.
I've stopped watching AO after women's quarterfinals and after Federer won the first set against Nadal in the semifinal, knowing, though by no means clairvoyant, fully well what was to come. I've seen enough of it, I hate being embarrassed and am unable to enjoy a monstrous grotesque for longer than half an hour at a time. I just looked up the results and came here to find some sanity. You all did not disappoint me. Cheers.
ReplyDeleteNadal's average groundstroke speed in the 1st set...72 MPH....how much did it drop in the 5th set, you ask?...it dropped sharply, due to fatigue, obviously, to 75 MPH.....nothing to see here.
ReplyDeleteI know of at least 3 100MPH forehands he hit, one from a falling back position on a ball that was at eye level and hit inside-out.....and I hope this dispells the MYTH that Nadal can't play on indoor HC....the end of the 4th and the entire 5th were played on indoor hard and his game didn't change a bit....his aversion to indoor HC is due to the fact that he doesn't like to juice up at the end of the year...it has NOTHING to do with the surface....could it be more obvious?.....
ReplyDeleteSwisscheese,
ReplyDeleteWhere did you get that stat?
And btw I don't agree with you. Nadal dosen't like those indoors events at the end of the year because they are payed in faster conditions and his defence can be penatrated. AO indoors or not is still slow as ass.
I would suggest that both Paris and WTF were played in pretty slow conditions last year. WTF did have a lower bounce, but I'm sure you've seen Nadal eat up Fed's slice enough times to realize that isn't too much of a problem for him. In my view, Nadal has looked very flat at the end of the year, and in his one sided loss to Federer wasn't chasing down nearly as much as he normally could have.
DeleteI agree that AO is slow as @ss though, no doubt.
The surface at the YEC's was a dead surface, where not as much purchase could be gained from windmilling a tennis ball to induce as much side splitting spin as possible. Nadal was flatter than he could have been for this tournament but proceeded to take Jo-Wilfred III all the way in the next RR match anyway. The pristine true nature of the bounce facilitated the flawless execution of Roger in his crushing win over Noodle. In short, flat or not, when a player like Old Codger is on his game on an indoor surface with a lower bounce, Noodle should barely be winning sets.
DeleteMy predictions for the coming months:
ReplyDelete1. Nadal will be a shadow of his Australian Open self, losing early in Indian Wells and Miami. The tennis media will blame the AO loss.
2. The clay court season will start and suddenly Nadal will find his form.
3. In early June, we'll be treated to the fourth consecutive Djoker/Nadal Grand Slam final.
VAMOS!
the stats came from the ESPN2 telecast....the forehand speeds were shown after the particular shot and the 1st vs 5th set stats were graphically shown, I believe, around 5-4 in the 5th....and Adam is correct...this year Paris and WTF were both said to be slower, but I'm getting a little tired of all this slow/hard, fast/hard, medium/hard, slow/grass, fast/grass....the ability of these players to run down shots makes ALL surfaces appear slower...and if Nadal can hit 100 mph forehands he should LOVE indoor hard and he should be able to smash the dogshit out of the ball with no wind and 72 degree temperature....he sweats absolute buckets during outdoor events so that alone should endear him to indoor conditions...plus I've never seen a true statistical representation of a slow hard vs. fast hard...it seems to be a very subjective analysis that often times changes from week 1 to week 2 in the majors as the players shoes wear on a surface after several matches...some people swear up and down that Wimby gets slower every year, but seemingly just as many people believe they haven't changed the grass since around 2000....
ReplyDelete...and riddle me this....if Nadal doesn't like indoor hard due to the "faster conditions" that allow his defense to be penetrated then how if the flying fuck has he made 5 Wimbledon finals, taken a prime Federer to 4 sets in a loss, 5 sets in a loss and ultimately a 5 set victory?...isn't grass a faster surface that makes defense easier to penetrate??
Well said, SC40!
DeleteBrilliant post SC! History says that great grass court players are also excellent indoor players. The best example is Goran Ivanesivic, who made no grand Slam finals outside of Wimbledon. 15 of his 22 career titles were on indoor carpet. Meanwhile, even Bjorn Borg (who is often compared to Nadal) won a whopping 23 titles indoors.
DeleteNadal is probably the only player in tennis history with more Wimbledon finals (5) than indoor (4).
There are objective measures of speed that the ITF uses, it involves firing a ball at the surface, then measuring the bounce angle/speed after it hits. For example, Miami is medium/slow, Australia is medium, US Open is medium/fast, WTF is medium/slow. They don't bother doing it so much with clay or grass though, because those depend more on weather. Almost all clay is slow or medium/slow, with the bigger events tending towards the latter now.
DeleteThis is only one part of the picture though, because balls differ in size (not much), how much they fluff up off the court (which makes them decelerate in the air more), how much moisture they pick up off the clay/grass and especially from the air. Also temperature makes a big difference, as does altitude, because both affect air density, and that's the drag the ball experiences through the air.
Yes, a lot of utter bollocks is talked on the subject.
Well the speed of the game is not only determined by the surface but also by the balls. Wimbledon nowadays uses heavy balls that makes the game slower and makes it harder to hit a volley.
ReplyDeleteAlso Nadal is alot more vulnerable in the early rounds when the grass still exists. The last rounds are virtaully played on dirt.
3 years ago the Roddick/Federer final was hardly called "slow" by anyone....is Roddick making the final of a clay-like major and subsequently playing Fed tougher than he ever has?...Fed breaks Roddick's serve at will on any surface other than grass....he broke Roddick once in essentially 7 sets of tennis...Nadal was so widely considered a clay-courter that when he began making Wimbledon finals no announcers had the balls to just state the obvious - that Nadal was so juiced during the FO/Wimby stretch that he would make the finals of any tournament on any surface in his current form...instead they explained it by stating that Wimbledon becomes a virtual clay tournament, but it was only because Nadal was in the final...when Tsonga and Berdych beat Federer at Wimby noone was claiming "slow" conditions...in fact the Tsonga/Fed match was classic grass with new string and racket technology....Tsonga was impossible to break....go to Youtube and watch 08 FO final where Federer can't get a ball past Nadal and wins 4 games in 3 sets....a month later at Wimbledon he had 783 winners in 5 sets including backhand winners which he NEVER had at the FO....the grass at Wimbledon still exists for the final except behind the baseline..the balls still land and bounce on the grass, not the dirt....in the old days Wimbledon's grass wore out around the service lines and service boxes...the extent of Nadal's "regimen" changed everything the last 6 years but as I said no one on television would actually speculate as to why.
ReplyDelete...and in regards to the AO's "slowness" did anyone think the courts were slow when Fed beat Del Potro?...it's when you throw Nadal, Djokovic and Murray into the mix that all of the sudden surfaces seem slower because they get to everything but I think we all know why that really is....do you realize how much faster they are than, say, Agassi/Courier/Sampras...they're as fast as Chang and young Hewitt but with twice the stamina and power.
In regards to the weight of the balls why haven't serve speeds and groundstroke speeds gone down at Wimbledon?...the added weight of the balls is probably as negligible as the 3 grams Nadal supposedly added to his racket.
Summary - it's all in the juice....and debating this stuff is more fun than watching it, at least for me.
When they say weight, they're actually not referring to grams, it's how heavy it feels to hit - the Aus balls are already the maximum allowed. It's more that the balls fluff up enormously, thus decelerate through the air more, thus you have to hit them harder for the same effect.
Deletere: Wimbledon, it's still quick through the court, but they roll the surface harder then they used to. Thus, higher bounce for the same speed. That's why serve still works fine at Wimbledon, you see much higher serve stats and more service holds there than other slams (at Wimbledon 17% of service games are breaks, at the Australian Open it's 24%).
There's still a lot of Federer fans here who are just obsessed with Nadal, and kudos to the new site runner for not making that his focus. A site like this can only be taken seriously if it's not a vendetta by one player's group of fans (ie Federer) against the player who beats him most regularly (Nadal). Personally, Djokovic is even more suspicious to me, as he was stuck at one level for so long, a well-known chronic fatigue artist and tanker, and then suddenly he's superman. But I doubt this is limited to just Djoker and Nadal and Serena. Those players are just best able to maximize the benefits of juicing.
ReplyDeleteAll we can do is try to grow awareness. You will be fought at all levels though. it has been observed again and again that people do not like their heroes to be tarnished. It is pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that these guys are juicing on something. It is blatantly obvious with Nadal and Djoker.
ReplyDeleteBut guys seriously, take gluten out of your diet and you too can beast the competition. I know this.
I don't think Nadal is juicing. From the very first meeting of Nadal Federer you could see his talent and that it was just a matter of time before he dominated Federer and the rest of the field. I don't think that Nadal has ever juiced. I was very close to the court in NY last September (in the box next to the Nadal family) and I can tell you he was spent and hanging on by a thread. It was pure talent that kept him in that match. Let us not forget the Djokovic antics that day,calling the trainer for a pull that never happened. And off topic,what about his match against Delpo where he was back to his old tricks(where he had to retire--the doping authorities were much stricter during the last ties)
ReplyDeleteSORRY- Djoke is on us. Today's display of faking fatigue in the 5th set was obvious to everyone but Chris Fowler and Killer Cahill. It was clear the Nadal was about to keel over during the trophy presentation, propping himself against the net until somebody finally notice and brought the chairs over. Djoker could have stood there another 6 hrs. If you watch closely, it was only then that Djoker started to act like he was fatigued and every motion Nadal made (leg extensions) was then immediately followed by Djokovic.
Friends, the Bore is back! In a dandiest purist-form so far! And, as usual, in more than one incarnation - one "corroborating" the other's "insights", "arguments" and "close-encounter-evidences"... Exclusively brought to us - straight from the gutter! Oh, the joy, the joy, the joy of it all! I'd say: worthy of a kiss on the arse - or a kick in the butt? You decide.
ReplyDeleteI know temperatures can run high on the doping issue. This is the reason why I pretty much stopped posting pictures as they seem to bring out the worst in people.
ReplyDeleteIn the last two weeks, I believe I has posted enough facts to prove conclusively that the doping control regime in tennis is wholly ineffective. Since that's the case, there is no purpose arguing over whether player X or player Y are doping, or not. There is a cloud over the entire sport and there is a cloud over EVERY player.
Let's keep this mind that PEDs cover a range of attributes: strength, endurance, recovery, and even concentration (ie., ADD drugs).
Also, if you think someone is trolling. Let them be. It only encourages them.
That is all.
Tennispurist....go to Youtube and search Nadal vs Hewit Australian Open 2004...Nadal is still wearing sleeves and looks like a teenager at the end of January.....now search Nadal vs Federer Miami 2004....a mere 2 months later he is now wearing a sleeveless shirt with guns as big if not bigger than the guns he has now...he looks like a football player.....from teenager to bodybuilder in 2 months.....it's in plain sight for anyone to see...
ReplyDelete...and if you believe that "calling a trainer for a pull that never happened" points to doping then for the love of topspin Nadal should be your prime target.....he's the undisputed KING of fake MTO's...I'd venture to say Djokovic learned it from Nadal....I don't have time to list all the times Nadal has pulled that crap because Christmas is in 11 months and I have to get some shopping done so I just don't have enough time.
Sen,
ReplyDeletePosting pictures brings the worst in people, but also brings attention to the cause. I would say it is effective to mix both. I, for one, got hooked through the pictures and then read the deeper analysis and objections. Without the attention, the social network effect, eventually this blog will die as well. Another small suggestion is to have a summary of the main argument behind the scheduling of testing... I doubt such debate will make ITF change policies. But if 10,000 fans become convinced by pictures and so on, something could happen.
By the way, the fact that fans are fighting if their hero's nemesis is doped is great. If you take all opinions are taken into account, it is pretty clear that both finalists were doping! Only a lot of fan anger can change this sport...
Free
Some people are very quick to suggest that aspects of this blog and the motives of posters are simply sour grapes and bitterness at Nadal's (and more recently Djokovic's) domination over Federer over the last 6 years or so. What they seem to overlook is that if a player that is beating your favourite player appears extremely suspect with regards to using PEDs to do so, some bitterness is very much justified. No matter how suspicious Nadal is or becomes, it will always come across as sour grapes because of Federer's following.
ReplyDeleteI think it is fine to be mightily concerned about a very suspicious player if they appear to be shafting another player, who themselves look very much less suspicious. The key factor is that they are suspicious regardless, and could very well be using PEDs in the process of beating legit players, who should be pitied in such circumstances. Sure, it's speculative, could be wrong and evidence for it's plausibility is still being gathered on this blog by Sen's brilliant work, but it's much more reasonable than some people would like to believe.
The ITF is supposed to identify suspicious players for "targeted testing". Some of the criteria for suspicion are actually quite broad:
Delete4.4.2 ADOs shall ensure that a significant amount of Testing undertaken pursuant
to the Test Distribution Plan is Target Testing, based on the intelligent assessment of
the risks of doping and the most effective use of resources to ensure optimum
detection and deterrence. The factors that will be relevant to determining who
should be made the subject of Target Testing will vary as between different sports,
but could include (without limitation) some or all of the following factors:
a) Abnormal biological parameters (blood parameters, steroid profiles, etc);
b) Injury;
c) Withdrawal or absence from expected Competition;
d) Going into or coming out of retirement;
e) Behaviour indicating doping;
f) Sudden major improvements in performance;
g) Repeated failure to provide Whereabouts Filings;
h) Whereabouts Filings that may indicate a potential increase in the risk of
doping, including moving to a remote location;
i) Athlete sport performance history;
j) Athlete age, e.g. approaching retirement, move from junior to senior level;
k) Athletetest history;
l) Athlete reinstatement after a period of Ineligibility;
m) Financial incentives for improved performance, such as prize money or
sponsorship opportunities;
n) Athlete association with a third party such as coach or doctor with a history
of involvement in doping; and
o) Reliable information from a third party.
http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_61472_original.PDF
Ah yes Michlob, I remember seeing Sen's post about that a short while back. I believe I made a passing comment listing a bunch that Nadal would be essentially overqualified for (you now as well as I do which ones so no need to repost). Thanks for bringing it up again though. Highlights the point that keeping track of suspicious players is not only sensible, but is actually a guiding principle of how testing is supposed to be done, by the ITF's own code.
DeleteI think it's fascinating to contrast Federer and Djokovic's approach to playing Nadal. In the not too distant past, BOTH players were being dominated by the Spaniard, yet only Djokovic was able to turn it around. People say Federer's one handed backhand is a weakness against Nadal's topspin. However, that can't explain why Djokovic and his awesome two-hander were once being dominated by Nadal as well.
ReplyDeleteI remember Federer's critics saying he should avoid getting in the long rallies, because Nadal would always come out on top. However, Djokovic has proved that this is not the case. The ONLY way to beat Nadal is to outhit, outrun, and outlast Nadal. To do that, one would have to be a superior player to Nadal AND possess equal or better stamina. Federer's game is not based on stamina. Remember, he once serve and volleyed his way to a victory over Pete Sampras at Wimbledon.
I don't rule any player, Federer included, as a doper. However, I believe that PED's would be more beneficial to Nadal's game than Federer's. That means if Federer and Nadal both played a match clean (ie: the World Tour Finals), Federer would win, but if both players played a match doped up, Nadal would win.
PED's turns tennis into a stamina game, so it favors players with physical games. Take PED's out of the game, and the more skilled players would dominate.
I agree with part of your post but I feel if Fed got doped to the level of Nadal he (Fed) would have a much better chance of beating Nadal in a GS. The reason why the Djoker is suddenly dominating Nadal is because he discovered the magic potion and (the important part) he is a much more talented player than Nadal. His game has a lot more variety. Similarly, if Fed got the juice, despite the one handed BH problem I think he would dominate Nadal because he loses way too many long rallies by just running out of steam and Fed is the more talented player. Nadal can keep going and going and going. But so many of their matches have been incredibly close therefore I feel if Fed was juiced he would have won those IMV. Not to mention the increased confidence that PED's can give a player and confidence is so much a part of the game. I don't blame Fed for not being able to conquer Nadal because it's obvious he is trying to do it the right way, not the illegal way.
DeleteOne thing is for sure: all of these players are very talented. When I hear Federer fans say Nadal is talentless and just doped up, THAT is sour grapes. And does the cause of this blog no favors. And even the issue of stamina is interesting, as one thing that always impressed me about Roger Federer was his ability to play 5-setters and not even break a sweat. Am I saying Roger is a doper? No. But when we get into this game, we have to be careful, because suddenly *everything* can look like a reason that player X, who we don't like, is doping. I've seen that happen here far too often. And it hurts the cause that this blog is trying to achieve: opening eyes about the problem of PEDs in tennis *as a whole.* NOT the problem that Nadal or Djokovic beats our hero Roger or Rafa.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, maintaining as much objectivity is key. Actions by any player, if suspicious, should be highlighted with the sole purpose of demonstrating possible problems with testing/doping as a whole.
DeleteI think sen has done a great job with objectivity, focusing on the ITF and rarely singling out any players.
DeleteMe too; GutterDandy is referring to posters within the comments sections.
DeleteOf course anyone worth their salt would take an entirely public discussion with a pinch of it. Sen is the rock; the mastermind, and is doing a great job.
.....so...for the 4,698,359,254th time, feel free to make your case against Roger Federer instead of insisting that the cases against anyone else should not be made and further insisting that this blog never addresses Roger
ReplyDeleteFederer....I'm sure that will result in the 4,698,359,255th time that no credible argument will be made.
1 - Outstanding lungs
2 - Curious case of Mono
3 - Back problems
4 - Father worked in Pharma
I've seen your posts on ESPN...Q: How can Nadal beat Djokovic
Gutter's A: Start taking some of Djokovic's EPO
You can fool some people but you're not fooling me.
You're an idiot. I never claimed Federer is using PEDs. But certainly some of the claims made for others like Nadal and Djoker using them can also be made against Federer or many other players.
DeleteMy personal opinion is that Federer is likely too egotistical to use PEDs. He wouldn't want to admit to himself that he needed the outside help.
So Federer is damned if he do(p)es and damned if he doesn't! Hilarious. Thanks for the best laugh of the day.
DeleteI love your "we have to be careful...".....are you careful on ESPN??
ReplyDeleteweknownothing: "What Rafa must do? Get in Djoker's egg."...to which Gutterdandy replies "Borrow his supply of EPO..."
Gutterdandy: "Djokovic did *something* to overcome his stamina problems." -- Ivan Lendl"
"Something" likely being the "magic potion" that Yannick Noah referred to."
Gutterdandy: "Djuiceovic is using EPO, for sure. Lendl alluded to it on ESPN when he said Djokovic did "something" to get over his longstanding stamina problem. When ESPN replayed the Lendl interview the next day, they tellingly cut that part out. Too close to the truth about the world number one."
Gutterdandy: "Yeah, Djuiceovic is the biggest doper on the tour, so he'll need them to compete"
Gutterdandy: "How many times did Doperbitch lose to Rafa before he started taking EPO
Smason9: "Rafa needs to keep his shots deep"
Gutterdandy: "Like Nole is keeping his -- deep into the vein."
Gutterdandy: "Depends on how long Djoker keeps juicing. No-one, I repeat, NO-ONE, who has been a chronic fatigue gas-out artist for years, suddenly becomes a never-tired superman of endurance in the space of a couple of months, without chemical assistance. It's just not possible. If it looks too good to be true, it almost always is...."
That's just one day's worth of posts:
http://espn.go.com/tennis/blog/_/name/bodo_peter/id/7512931/australian-open-here-how-rafael-nadal-end-skid-versus-novak-djokovic
Yes, but those remarks were made in a fan forum in an different context than what we have here. I do like the one I made about Nole keeping his shots deep in the vein, though, that was classic! Thanks for reminding me of it.
Deletesee, Gutter thinks Djokovic and Federer dope and Nadal doesn't, which is fine with me.
ReplyDeleteI think Djokovic and Nadal dope and I think Federer might.
I'll admit what I think and Guter won't.
Where did I ever say that Nadal doesn't juice?
DeleteI think the match yesterday was the product of extreme juicing.
And it takes two to make a match.
I just think Nadal receives extra attention on this issue because of disgruntled Federer fans. That isn't the same as saying I don't think he dopes. I also think if Nadal went away or was caught doping, a lot of Federer fans would cease to care about this doping issue. Which means for them, it's only about Nadal. And it isn't.
As for Federer, I think his ego is probably such that he would consider doping beneath him. If all the other guys are doping and he isn't, though, you have to wonder why he's never said much of anything about this issue. He'd certainly have a good idea as to what is going on.
"If all the other guys are doping and he isn't, though, you have to wonder why he's never said much of anything about this issue."
Delete47 million dollars (2011) is good enough reason not to say much. Why should R.Fed dope when he earns so much more cash than other top tennis players by not doping?
I didn't say he was doping. I said he's very quiet about the issue if so many others are doping. Doesn't he care about this issue? He just cares about money, is what you're saying.
DeleteWell, 47 million dollars can sure buy a lot of silence. I think Roger does not speak up on a lot of things for this reason.
DeleteFederer has been very vocal at times, e.g. advocating blood and urine samples being stored - as with Olympics testing - for 8 years or preferably more, in case better tests are developed in that time and the samples can be re-tested. I don't exactly hear that from certain other players - the ones who want the season shortened, for instance.
DeleteAs for outing individuals, obviously Fed is the very last person who can do that. Not only does he personally not have proof (who can follow our doper friends into the medical room or the bathroom?), but he would instantly be called a bad loser and a traitor to his fellow players and the entire tennis world if he were even to hint at such a thing. The media would go ballistic. Use your brains, guys. The same would happen even if he raised the alarm after he retires. Someone else, less prominent, will have to do the dirty work. One day. Maybe.
I meant to add - look what happened to Yannick Noah just recently when he bravely raised the doping issue in the French press (Le Monde). If you don't know about that (plenty of whitewashing in the English-speaking press too) I suggest you do some research.
DeleteWhile sticking to doping on the whole is always best as a general outlook, the value of keeping some focus on vastly more suspicious players than others (on that note, I would like to add that the totality of Nadal's suspicious antics cannot be attributed to other players, especially not Federer; this is simply true, regardless of preferences) should not be understated or scorned. As someone stated before, a lot of people become interested in finding out more about the facts on this blog because they have wondered about a high profile player such as Nadal, and can dive into a summary of his circumstances to open their eyes to a detailed look into things they have noticed and thought were fishy.
DeleteFocusing on suspicious players and their antics is simply practical. It highlights every trick in the book and keeps a historical tally of contradictions and patterns of behaviour that can provide a lot of insight.
I have just retraced some past comments on this blog site by you, GutterDandy and either it was deliberate trolling or your genuine thought was that Djoker is definitely juicing and you were hammering it home like no tomorrow. This concludes that you are either a troll or a hypocrite, non-exclusively speaking.
Oh and what amaranth said. Salient points as always.
DeleteGutterdandy asked(from above): "Where did I ever say that Nadal doesn't juice?"
DeleteWell, when you posted that Nadal should "borrow his (Djoko's) supply of EPO," you were clearly implying that
a) Nadal doesn't juice and Djokovic does, or
b) that he currently juices, but with something other than EPO, or c) that he juices with EPO but doesn't have enough EPO and thus needs to borrow Djokovic's EPO???
I know I'm just an "idiot", deluded Fedtard (in your Bore-ish man-mind) but it sure strikes me that you were implying that Nadal doesn't juice and to beat Djokovic he needs to start juicing....but I'm already getting "bore-d" by all this and I think I'm gonna watch the movie "Bore-at" as I've not seen it yet and it looks funny...
...did anyone else hear that Nadal had to "bore" a hole in his knees to drain fluid?...and then he had to "bore" a hole in his shoulder....and while he was at the Dr. Fuentes' for the other two "bore"-ings he decided to go ahead and "bore" a hole in his broken metatarsal bone to relieve pressure??....I also hear he told a reporter he was getting rather "bored" with all the "bore-ings" that he was having to endure because he a-bore's being bored?
Sincerely,
The "Idiot"
and to your question as to why Federer doesn't say anything...requesting blood and urine samples be kept for years upon years so they can be tested with new methods and standing by his willingness to do so is all he should ever have to say....that's a mouthful.
DeleteThe cheats will never be exposed. Can any of you imagine what would happen to the entire tennis industry if 3, 4, 5 or more of the top ten players were exposed as dopers? Please, just think about that for a minute. IT. WON'T. HAPPEN!!! EVER!! The only thing that might ever happen is an individual "silent" ban occasionally like the one Nadal endured in 2009. Is that where Soderling is? Sitting out a ban or is it really a bad case of mono? Will we ever know? Yes, I'm a conspiracy theorist. If they expose one doper, then the entire house of cards will fall. So it won't ever happen. It would kill the business. Do you think anyone would ever care how many majors Fed won if his biggest competition in those tournaments was players ranked outside the top ten? No. The fans, the media, the sponsors only care when the top four players make it to the SF's and then the top 2 make the final. Sad state of affairs but it is what it is. I'm really looking forward to the next three finals with Nadal and Nole bashing the ball until the cows come home. Here's to the Golden Slam Nole!! The Doped GOAT !!! The GDOAT!!! Bravo!! You beat the biggest doper of all time at his own game!!
DeleteWhat honest player would be brave enough to call foul when there is a testing programme in place?
DeleteLOL well said Lopi, I like the GDOAT acromym, though it is harder to mentally pronounce than GOAT.
Delete@Lopi
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CImCNqTT6k4
That explains everything.
At least someone hasn't forgotten him:
Delete@RSoderling
Robin Söderling
Älskar att bli väckt av dopingpolisen tidigt på morgonen. Sovmorgon är ändå överskattat #not
29 Dec via Twitter for iPhone
I liked the pix; those two look like Jake Glynnehall in that Prince of Persia movie.
ReplyDeleteGreat job Sen!
This is off topic, but I am glad to see this blog getting a lot of traffic again. We have a good cause and many people are asking questions these days. Perhaps tennis can become a test of skill and endurance again and not a competition between better PED cocktails. I don't think tennis or any other modern sport paying out big bucks can be squeaky clean, but I just do not want the doping to be so blatantly obvious anymore. Women should not look like NFL linebackers and the men should not be throwing away their post-tennis healthiness to win at such a high cost. Money and fame is not worth a 20 to 30 year reduction in someone's lifespan.
ReplyDeleteEpic *peep* rage:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivDHiDxq91w
LoooL!! So classy!
DeleteKeep up the good work on this blog. The testing statistics are a real eye opener - I bet the average tennis fan does not know that it appears only losers are tested at recent grand slam events - and the only winner tested is the actual champion.
ReplyDeleteThis is a farcical testing regime - there is no logic to it. A cynic might argue they are trying to avoid too many positive tests (and media fallout) by not testing more match winners.......
Clearly it will take a brave journalist or tennis administrator to expose what is really going on. Like any big organisation, there probably have been cover-ups to protect self interests.
The truth will come out. There are far too many people involved in tennis that you could expect no one to talk. As it is, the TV commentators are beginning to sound incredulous. I recall a commentator mentioning during the second set of the Murray match that it was "inconcieveable" that Djokovic would be capable of playing another set, let alone four or five... People remember comments like that.
DeleteKarl Marx once commented that 'History repeats itself. First as tragedy and then as farce.'
DeleteTennis needs a 'Festina' scandal.
As a cycling fan I can tell you that we all wondered if and when the dam would break around Armstrong etc, and sure enough it has. No one looks back on his success these days as anything other than a joke (apart from a few lone believers).
Does this mean that when the dam breaks the sport gets cleaned up - sadly not. One raft of dopers disappears and another lot arrive. So we now have Spanish dopers like Contador, Valverde etc, we're all waiting for the dam to break around Spanish doping, which I'm sure it will eventually. The same goes for the 'miraculous' success of British cycling - a nation with no track record of success in the sport is suddenly a 'powerhouse' and its all down to 'incremental gains', diet and training.
Ultimately, it is the riders who get thrown under the bus, not the authorities who have allowed this to happen. So I'm sure at some point that Nadal, etc will get busted, and will get thrown under the bus, but the authorities will carry on as before. The journalists will continue to fawn and suck up to the next generation of dopers and pretend that the sport has 'cleaned up'
It's also worth noting that all of the major busts in doping have been due to the police never the sporting authorities.
@Moonax:
DeleteI agree with you.
Cycling,after all these years of tribulation,has Evans,Gilbert,Sagan,Nibali,etc.
Guys with the right attitude.
Tennis in 2012 is like bike and cross country skiing in 1995:a farce.
And there's an entire system behind the lies...
Peace,
Simone Basso
Look at a shirtless Djokovic in 2011 at 0:58 secs here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCEheMuVvPQ
And compare the pics above. Thats a lot of gym work
You can't compare apples with oranges, you can't compare a video with a still, neither you can compare a still where he flexes all his muscles with a video where he's almost inactive. Compare your video with this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saagwVtrZGs)and only while he doesn't flex and tell me if you see a difference in his body mass... I don't think pictures can prove anything in the case of Djokovic..
DeleteDidn't we already elaborate that PED abuse does not necessarily lead to a change in body mass?
DeleteNeither of the two implications, using illegal supplements because of an impressive gain or being innocent due to lack of it, are true by default.
In fact, we all do not have the striking and incontrovertible evidence we may be looking for. Anything like that will be kept secret to the public like a Holy Grail.