Friday, November 22, 2013

Robin Haase

An interesting story...
'An anti-doping test carried out in 2006 revealed abnormally high levels of testosterone in Dutch tennis player Robin Haase, press reports in the Netherlands revealed on Friday.

'Haase, 26, explained in the daily Volkskrant that, after undergoing the test, he received a letter from the ATP advising him "to get a lawyer" and indicating that he would have to undergo three more tests in the following two weeks.

'However, according to Haase, the letter also indicated that "the abnormal level could very well be natural"'
My one comment is that the headline writer gets it wrong, what occurred would be classified as an Atypical Finding based on a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio (T/E ratio) screening. This is in contrast to, for example, the IRMS test that found baseball player Ryan Braun had synthetic (exogenous) testostorone in his system.

The original Haase stories (in Dutch) are here and here.

43 comments:

  1. To add:

    http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3549407/2013/11/22/Robin-Haase-testte-in-2006-positief-op-testosteron.dhtml

    "The ATP announced that I would be tested to confirm that. Within two weeks three times When I turned again to come out. Same values After that I never heard anything. Perhaps the WADA a certificate to me recorded in the system, where those values ​​are registered and then I can not be tested positive. I do not know. "

    The outcome of that test was never brought out by the ATP or the Dutch tennis federation (KNLTB). The number 1 of Netherlands says nothing to hide. Haase: 'I've never been afraid that the positive test would haunt because it was certain that I did not use doping me. I always say: look at my build and tell me what I should take.

    "I tested in 2013 about a dozen times, but I think that should be checked. Much more focused in tennis, If Nadal wins everything after injury period of seven months, he should just be extensively tested. "

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  2. T/E levels, well that's a can of worms we are opening here.

    A Swedish study from 2010 has shown that when looking at the T/E ratio there is a genetic dispostiion involved. Depending on whether you have a certain enzym, UGT2B17, or lack it, you are more likely to have a high tolerance for testosteron. F.i. Asians often lack that enzym - 60-70% of the population i fact - the study showed that their levels never exceeded 4 -- and this despite being given a hefty dosage (230 milligrams). In Europeans, otoh, only 10% roughly lack that enzym.

    It is generally agreed upon, that some people can have a high T/E ratio naturally (endogenous) and not have doped.

    So genetic disposition can also work in you favor, when you don't have that enzym, you can takeas much testosterone as you please and get away with it, as explained above. I believe 4:1 is the WADA accepted level, formerly 6:1. You can do a test to determine whether you are among the chosen few also ;)

    Note also that there can also be natural causes for an elevated T:E ratio, so tests need to establish whether the findings are endogenous (natural) or exogenous - resulting from external sources.

    So once your test results show an elevated level (=AAF), further tests are being conducted, a so-called isotope ratio mass spectrometry (IRMS) will show whether the ratio is natural or due to extrogenous abuse.

    However, WADA has the following to say on the subject of IRMS:
    >‘Positive’ IRMS analysis allows the clear qualification of exogenous origin. However, indications that values are consistent with the endogenous reference compound (‘Negative’ IRMS) can range from relative certainty to uncertainty, depending on delta values and other factors. It is therefore possible for laboratories to provide further detail, and an opinion on the likelihood of endogenous origin.>

    So when they decide your levels are endogenous this will result in a negative IRMS your ADO will get a report and decide you won't have tested positive.

    Now if your ADO was cheap, like the ITF and did not get an IRMS done, they could also collect three more (future) samples within 1-3 months and then compare the levels. They could also use previous sample, if they have them. The former seems to be the case with Haase's >4 finding, resulting in 3 further tests. The lab then will send a report to the ADO.

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  3. I need to explain myself clearer here - I forgot to point out that an IRMS still leaves a loophole open, because once the result comes back as negative (that is enogenous, "natural") it does not necessarily mean you have NOT been doping:

    >Unfortunately, a negative test is uninformative because increased production of endogenous testosterone due to administration of LH or human chorionic gonadotropin or the use of a testosterone preparation with a similar δ-value (e.g. orchic extract) would give a negative result even in the presence of grossly increased amounts of testosterone. >

    So, it is tricky to catch someone doping with Testosterone ( Lance knows a story or two about that - remeber his "oil" and his infamous testicle patch ;) ) also the detection window is really small.

    Now concerning Haase, well, let's say that - I give him the benefit of the doubt, yet, as I outlined above, it's tricky.

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    1. Maybe you answered this is your statement about similar δ-value's not being detectible, so I just want to ask as clarification:

      Do the current brands of "bio-identical hormones" show up on the IRMS test? If not, is there any known method of detecting them given that they are supposedly "bio-identical" to natural hormones?

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    2. @ MT

      I am not savvy enough, to be honest, to fully answer that, I only know that it is possible by using hCG or LH (luteinizing hormone) to get away with it when they do IRMS. The orchic stuff, tbph, I have no clue what that is and would need to read up on it to fully grasp that -- however, what I found is this study:

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439513/

      It seems to suggestthat hCG (Gonadotropin) and LH at that point (2008) were still hard to detect by the known methods - also due to their fast half-time - which then would also mean that TADP prolly didn't check for that anyway, given how slack and poor they are.

      Again, for clarification, I believe back in 2006 they did not ran an IRMS on Haase's sample (I am not even sure when WADA began using those IRMS officially, need to look into that) but instead, as Haase says, the ITF simply did three follow up tests. And since the levels turned out steady, according to Haase, they went with it and considered it within the normal variancy in humans. Which can be plausible, let's not forget about that.

      Anyway, here is for starters a short abstract explaining what hCG and LH do from the above study:

      >Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) is a glycoprotein produced at high concentrations by the trophoblasts of the placenta (Stenman et al., 2006). HCG and luteinizing hormone (LH) exert the same activity, that is, they stimulate the production of testosterone in the testicles of males and progesterone and estradiol in the female ovaries. The half-life of hCG is longer than that of LH and pharmaceutical preparations are more readily available. It can therefore be used by male athletes to increase testosterone production and to normalize testicular testosterone production that is suppressed during and after prolonged use of anabolic steroids.>

      Also this:
      >Secretion of pituitary LH and hCG (and FSH) is regulated by gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH), which is available as a pharmaceutical preparation. GnRH and its analogues can be used to restore testicular function after the use of anabolic steroids and they could also be used to increase gonadotropin and testosterone secretion for doping purposes. This would be difficult to detect and there are no reports on such use.>

      Also, the real deal seems to be to combine testosterone and gonadotropin if you want to reduce your T:E (meaning getting the T:E to <4, the critical threshold):

      >Simultaneous use of gonadotropins and testosterone can be expected to reduce the T/E ratio by increasing the testicular secretion of epitestosterone (and testosterone). Administration of hCG alone does not affect the T/E ratio (Cowan et al., 1991) but repeated administration of testosterone and hCG has been shown to suppress the increase in T/E ratio seen when testosterone was given alone. This study comprised only a single male athlete, but the results are expected and probably representative. However, the effect of hCG on the T/E ratio is limited and, depending on timing and dosage of the hormone preparations, the ratio may not be normalized>

      Again, all quotes from above cited study.

      Any thoughts?

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    3. I found this answer from Don Catlin:

      The potential for doping with these natural hormones remains high. While detection methods are in place, the game is getting complicated. People we speak to who are close to the anti-aging industry describe claims of bioidentical testosterone that can thwart current testing methodologies. Now, we know that such claims have been made before, many have been proven to be a farce, but others have shown to be all too true.
      (https://thecatlinperspective.wordpress.com/category/human-growth-hormone-hgh-2/)

      So, it appears that some of these, but not all, are not detectible. Just means the people who can afford it can do it without getting caught.

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  4. Are they saying that they retested and the elevated ratios remained the same? Wasn't clear from the story. If they retested and the T/E ratios were back in the normal range, that would be a good indication that he was doping when he first tested positive. Not as obvious otherwise. The "look at my build argument" can't be taken too seriously after Petr Korda.

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    1. Quote Haase: "Toen bleek ik telkens op dezelfde waarden uit te komen."

      = When I got tested again, the same values came out

      I wonder if you could possibly manipulate your T/E so that they remain forever on the same level...

      In general, isn't some variation tolerated, meaning if he tested just a little above his average (from 3 previous or future tests) this could be both, an indicator for micro doping or a natural deviation?

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    2. Sounds like it could be either TK, but given that (as far as I know) he brought this up himself, them said a certain other player should be being tested to high heaven and back, I don't see a reason to be overly cynical (given what we know at this stage).

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  6. If I understand correctly, WADA policy is that out of range T/E ratios should prompt carbon isotope ratio testing, which should confirm presence of synthetic steroids. I don't know if this applies tio all sampes collected by ITF.

    CIR testing is not available in all labs, nor are standards in labs that do perform it uniform, quality-wise.

    Victor Conte (who knows a thing or two about doping) thinks CIR is a big deal that should be more widely applied, since a T/E ratio of between 1:1 and 4:1 (legal) could be achieved in a micro-doping athlete.

    Victors Dailynews editorial about this here: http://tllg.net/mGOq!

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  7. Nice straight talking from Haase, good to see. He does seem to have nothing to hide in this case. But when he says, "I tested in 2013 about a dozen times, but I think that should be checked. Much more focused in tennis, If Nadal wins everything after injury period of seven months, he should just be extensively tested", wow, take this as you will...

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  8. Not really sure what "I tested in 2013 about a dozen times, but I think that should be checked" means, does he mean someone needs to confirm (i.e. check) that it was in fact about a dozen times, or does it lose something in translation...?

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    1. Yes, Mystery, it loses a lot in this 'translation' (or, rather, this 'translation' has hardly anything to do with the original). So, here goes.
      Ortiginal: 'Ik ben in 2013 zo'n twaalf keer getest, maar ik vind dat in het tennis veel gerichter moet worden gecontroleerd. Wanneer Nadal alles wint na een blessureperiode van zeven maanden moet juist hij veelvuldig worden getest.'
      Translation (mind you, I'm Dutch): 'I've been something like twelve times tested during 2013, but I think that in tennis testing should be much more targeted. If Nadal wins everything [in sight] after a seven-month-long injury-related lay-off, it's actually he who should undergo a multitude of tests.'
      Makes sense, no?

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    2. Sweet quote from Haase.

      Can there be more voice like him in tennis? He is spot on when it comes to Nadal. However, the sad truth is the ITF could test Nadal 500 times and no positive sample would ever show anywhere, for he gets protected and surely got hold of crucial testing information to stay ahead.

      It seems unfair that they test the smaller fish, like Haase, after they return from injuries, while the big fish will never get fried and can continue their "magical" runs after nearly career ending knee jerkery nearly unbothered...

      Despite my lengthy other posts on the complicated T:E stuff, which were meant as background info mainly, showing how complicated matters are and not to be overly cynical.
      That said, I do cut Haase some slack here, I mean, why else would he talk about this so freely and why also give that other interview on doping tests that was posted in the other thread by Icarus, I believe?

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    3. P.S. Let me add: Besides making sense, this statement of Haase's, in it's stark matter-of-factness, also reveals all the horror behind the current 'anti-doping' policies of the subhuman creeps who run the game.

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    4. I hear Haase's phone ringing right now... It is his buddy Stuart Miller reminding him to "protect the integrity of tennis" by not talking about doping.

      Melchekzanikhar, thanks for the translation.

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  9. "Entire board of the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission resigns"

    http://tllg.net/dwkj

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    1. well goddamn!

      The entire board? Is it safe to assume that the fecal matter is about to meet the fan?

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    2. well goddamn!

      The entire board? Is it safe to assume that the fecal matter is about to meet the fan?

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    3. I guess they are jumping ship...

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  10. Great read from Richard Ings

    http://www.playthegame.org/uploads/media/Richard_Ings_-_Anti-Doping__Scratching_the_Surface.pdf

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  11. Feliciano Lopez: The anti-doping system in which we are entrusting us now is a disgrace
    Tennis - Lopez says he believes Cilic and Troicki are innocent

    http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Tennis---Feliciano-Lopez-The-anti-doping-system-in-which-we-are-entrusting-us-now-is-a-disgrace-articolo14990.html

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  12. " I am absolutely convinced that Marin has not taken anything prohibited as well as Victor. I have a close relationship with him and I can say that this day has refused to carry out the control but the day after he had gone to collect blood. This shows that it wanted to avoid the test but simply send it back for 24 hours ....".
    Google-translate notwithstanding, I think I get the drift of Deliciano's , eh, rationally founded argumentation. Also, to me it sounds as if he has a close relationship with Djoke as well... How mysteriously strange.
    Anyhow, the solution to this horrible problem would be, I gather, an anti-doping system which would announce its controls a month in advance, leaving another month-window of postponement, so that everybody who has any 'close relationship' with anybody else get their human rights put in place. No?

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    1. This level of dumbassery bares the question if tennis, among other things, has also a negative effect on your basic brain function...

      I mean, his head is clearly for decoration sake and to attach his luscious mane to...what a thickwit. He cannot be serious!

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    2. Does make you wonder. I mean, Cilic did admit that he took a prohibited substance, but this guy somehow is "absolutely convinced" that he did not. Ok, so why is he calling his friend a liar?

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  13. Looked like the drug testing a little bit tough nowadays for some eastern european, huh? At the same time Nadal climb up to no.1 surpassing Djokovic. Judging by the tournament draw fixing and court change to facilitate certain player to win, I will not be surprised if the drug testing is used as tools for the same reason.

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    1. And I will not be surprised if you yourself are 'some eastern european [such as, for instance, Serbian], huh'? Just judging by your 'arguments', that is, - not to mention the estimation, made by your own more level-headed compatriots, that Serbia has about three conspiracy theorists per capita - 'tools for [whatever] reason'. Aloha, ayahabayboz, aloha - and fail not to notice that I myself consider Nadal as No. 1 doper in male tennis, alongside your very own 'eastern europian' idol, Djoke.

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    2. Actually I wasn't defending any player in my argument. Nadal and Djokovic are puppets of the whole tennis industry. Nadal has been allowed to challenge Federer with some help on court setup, rule tolerance, PRP, TUE etc. When Federer is getting more difficult to play Nadal, here come Djokovic, with same help also I must say. This omerta from the tennis lord to media must cover such thing: rivalry, to keep money flowing. Next year it will be Djoker again to climb back to no.1. And system will work for that. Media selling stories of comeback bla bla bla...

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    3. Idols aside, I have been wondering about that as well.

      Can this argument be made that the ITF together with the ATP/WTA actively influence the outcome of their top positions?

      A Serena at the top good for the American market, no doubt. A competition for the # 1 spot including reality-defying winning runs and impossible defending is more dramatic than having a single player on top.

      So has the tour become a mere show, a la World Wrestling Federation (to take it to the extreme) - is this what we are seeing here?

      A combined effort in controlling results to their own liking and thereby magically maximizing profits while scripting the dramaturgy for the 'race" and the # 1 position in advance?

      Would that mean that when it comes to doping, they would at times protect one player from positive testing results, while at other times take him/her out of the game (aka voluntary suspension)? Always depending on their level of oportunism and their cold-blooded calculations as to what serves their interests best?

      The point could definitely be made regarding the slowing down of the surfaces - this benefits a certain clientele, obviously. Add to that the overall intransparency of the ITFs anti-doping "efforts" - they do not really refute the possibility of patronage, a case in point for that: the UCI and Armstrong.

      Tennis has become an industry, no doubt, I mean they are even cosidering to further pressure the AO in favor for more revenue from a slam in China - greedy assholes they are...

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  14. Here is for a nice late Sunday afternoon read, to keep us up-to-date and in-the-know on 10.4, the "inadvertently excuse" paragraph (which might get ditched soon):

    http://www.lawinsport.com/articles/anti-doping/item/inadvertent-doping-and-the-cas-part-i-review-of-cas-jurisprudence-on-the-interpretation-of-article-10-4-of-the-current-wada-code

    Makes mention of tennis too! Note, there is also a part II.

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  17. Doping in sport? .. Problem solved.........

    JADCO released an anti-doping music video. LOL

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qrh1uSm0D4&feature=youtu.be

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    1. Not sure whether I should laugh or cry.

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    2. Make it easy on yourself, MTracy, and do both, simultaneously.

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  18. More info on the new long term metabolite testing assay developed in Germany

    Cologne lab scientist Hans Geyer revealed detailed figures Friday at an anti-doping conference hosted by FIFA.

    The lab found 184 cases involving stanozolol, the banned drug used by sprinter Ben Johnson at the 1988 Olympics, and 82 of oral turinabol, a steroid widely used in the former East Germany.

    More cases are being revealed in re-tests requested by sports bodies, which the scientist did not identify, and have shown10 percent positives.

    Geyer said many of the positives since November 2012 involved athletics, weightlifting and wrestling, and all were reported to the World Anti-Doping Agency and sports governing bodies.The IOC has said the new test will be used at the Winter Olympics in Sochi in February. It will also be used in the planned retesting of samples from the 2008 Beijing Olympics before the eight-year statute of limitations expires in 2016.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2013/11/29/german-anti-doping-lab-finds-266-positive-cases/3782337/

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  19. Nadal on Llagostera - with groundbreaking information to all of us ...

    >" A player who plays doubles - Nadal said - has no need to resort to drugs . We know we that we play . I believe in her and give her all my support , I am close to Nuria and her mother . I think this was an involuntary thing , for those who play double logic does not need to doping. "

    >Nadal , who spoke at the presentation of a golf tournament for charity in Son Servera , near Mallorca, is also back on his magical season , "Without a doubt, it was one of the best years of my career , it was important to prove to me same that I could come back at certain levels after injury. I did not want to miss the train . I was very sick at the beginning of 2013 but now it is all gone . " >

    http://www.sportevai.it/altri-sport/tennis-nadal-difende-llagostera-aveva-bisogno-di-doparsi/

    I think such crap logic should be addressed by tennis officials - though Miller might be still busy harassing Haase on the phone ....obviously, the point is not whether she got high on meth for whatever reason - point is she had that substance in her system during a tournament and rules are that counts as doping.

    Am I surprised by the poor reasoning skills of both Nadal and Lopez? No, actually I believe they do this on purpose, I am ashamed of every "fan" of theirs who buys into their schtick.

    Now can someone ANYONE? test the fuck out of Nadal in the off-season so he will get caught, prettyplease?

    Or elsethat twat will go for the Laver record at the AO to win every Slam twice... I honestly don't want to see that happen.

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    1. Previously Nadal has expressed support for Contador, Gasquet, and Mallise.

      This is VERY clearly a case of "you support me if I get caught, and I will support you if you get caught". This is nothing more than classical OMERTA.

      It is damning evidence against Nadal (as was the recent statements from Lopez, and Djokovic, damning evidence against them). With all of the other circumstantial evidence against Nadal, only a SUCKER would support this FRAUD at this point.

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    2. It didn't take long before Nadal gave up on the "tennis needs more transparency". The Armstrong effect is fading. He is back to criticizing tennis's PED testing regime. I wonder why ?

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    3. Reverting to type, perhaps; does a leopard ever truly change its spots?

      Nadal has always been pretty consistent in supporting his co-nationals in times of trouble. I thought his support for the blood doper, Contador, particularly gross given the obvious problem in cycling at that point.

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    4. Indeed, he is a dyed-in-the-wool apologist of dopers - so no news here.

      As for his update on his knee "now it is all gone" - he must be trolling...

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    5. so Nadal says it's not necessary for doubles players to dope. I can read between the lines. In other words it IS necessary for singles players to dope. Well done Rafa. You just confirmed what we all already knew.

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