Taking a close look at doping control in professional tennis. How stringent is it? We also look at other issues related to the integrity of the sport.
Well, what to do? Denial is a strong thing. Eventually, Lance Armstrong was exposed, but even a book out from his teammate detailing the doping wasn’t enough by itself. I’d like to say that eventually she will be caught, but I’m not sure there is much desire to catch her. The money is just too strong, and the “journalists” are too dependent on the stars. Like Armstrong, her narcissism is strong enough and she is too arrogant to just quit, so I’m guessing that eventually she’ll be exposed, but it will be sad if she manages to walk away as some sort of icon and never get caught.
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Like the story of the Empires new clothes - people want to buy into idea rather than admit what's in front of their face.If it comes out, it will be in a tell tale book set to be published in about 20 odd years from now - my monies on the ex hitting partner Sacha (??) or another member of her team that was "let go" in this years reshuffle.
Last night's women's final was so bad I am not sure whether doping is to be blamed or it's just the way the women play now. Serena is clearly a hulk compared to her younger days, or any other player - past or present. A hippo in a tutu. She is as serve-dependent as a Karlovic or Isner - and just as lethal to her opponents. The rest of her game is random thuggery on a tennis court and repellent to watch. When she misses - which is quite often - it's the back fence. But then most of her opponents are the same, although in Serena's case the serve comes to the rescue (accompanied by much ghastly screaming). Is that the result of doping? Of course. But the band plays on. Her opponent Muguruza may or may not be juiced but Muguruza's own game was risible at that level: without variety, intelligence, or defence - once stretched she flailed helplessly at the ball, as cumbersome as a beached albatross trying to resume flight. Of course - she is another young player in the Sharapova model : the death of women's professional tennis. Completely one-dimensional and clueless - as Mats Wilander once said of Sharapova, "she is a mindless pounder of the ball". And so the game goes. How can former champions like Navratilova or Wade sit obliging in the stands and give credibility to this spectacle? Thankfully, Steffi never shows. Time to watch a genuine sport like the Tour de France.
The money wasn't too strong for the likes of Henin, Kim and all the others, Somehow Serena who is so hated for her race that she can't even have sponsors based on her status in the women game, is not suspended but henin is because white people like blacks more than themselves??? you guys are funny, Do you guys remember what brought in the challenge system??? that was a pure display of unsupervised and untamed authority that we have come to know for some.
I didn't even read this: Muguruza's own game was risible at that level: without variety, intelligence, or defence - once stretched she flailed helplessly at the ball, as cumbersome as a beached albatross trying to resume flight. Of course - she is another young player in the Sharapova model : the death of women's professional tennis. Completely one-dimensional and clueless - as Mats Wilander once said of Sharapova, "she is a mindless pounder of the ball" That's exaclty what I said. The girls of this generation don't know how to play and that's why Serena is still dominating.
The two can go together: her doping and their ineptitude.
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"A hippo in a tutu. She is as serve-dependent as a Karlovic or Isner - and just as lethal to her opponents. The rest of her game is random thuggery on a tennis court and repellent to watch."Well said. The actual skill level was poor from both, but in particular watching Serena whacking balls ferociously hard (without seemingly being especially concerned with their accuracy), and then moodily clump around in between points was not exactly the most riveting of spectacles.
Love the similes richard!
Hey,Richard,she is 17-0 in 3 set matches this year,she is the greatest problem solver the sport has ever seen.Best serve,best return of serve,best backhand and forehand,uses angles more than anyone else on the run and the toughest mentally.Women's game better than it ever was.And this guy Arf's statistics on her serve,where did he get them from because they are all phony.
The problem is that her solutions may be pharmaceutical....
@dtank77 (What's in a name - 'd' for 'delusional'? - or just 'dense'? 'tank' - clearly self-descriptive. And '77' for I.Q?)It's when we see Serena 'the Screamer' in full cry (literally) that we can grasp what a coolly cerebral 'problem-solving' player that she is; her Einsteinian analysis followed by one of her trade-mark 'drunk-in-a-bar' haymakers in the general direction of her opponent's court. Fortunately the court is a bigger target than her opponent's head, which is what she really appears to want to be attacking. If a Neanderthal were ever taught to play tennis its game would surely resemble something like this. Mere homo sapiens has no chance.
Richard calling someone delusional??? We will have seen it all. dtank, they don't understand the game. they don't know that Serena is by far the most skilled on the tour and that's why she keeps winning. Why Stosur and other strongly built girls like kim, Davenport, didn't win many slams? They think you just need to be bony to be skillful.
I would love to beat the living shit out of you,you racist mother fucker.
So, how long have you been experiencing these feelings of inadequacy?
So the Ladies singles in Wimbledon is over for 2015 and Serena has completed the "Serena Slam". I have no doubt the US Open title will also be Serena's and "the "Calendar Slam" for 2015 - Can Serena do it again in 2016 and also win Olympic Gold to add to her massive achievement?While Serena gets the glory, us "spectators" questions or not will be left with a sense of disillusion with Women s Tennis. The generation that competed with Serena forever known as inferior to Williams’s greatness, a tag that will no doubt follow them as long as the "Serena years" will be remembered. This will be the true legacy and i'm surprised the WTA do not realize the true damage this will cause in the long term. Serena will leave and take her greatness with her, leaving the WTA with a void of inferiors struggling to live up to precedent set. Next Djokovic V Federer....Djokovic himself seemingly unbeatable (not as unbeatable as Serena but his wins still are impressive). I think this will go to five sets - there is always pressure on the men to raise the level when an anticlimactic women s final was played the previous day.
They're both smashing the ball around at the moment. I wonder if Fed will last the distance. If he does well, suspicious? Let's wait and see.
he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he loses he loses. If he wins he's a doper. Right? Catch 22
Don't see Roger winning this one. Djoker will not give an inch on his serves now & is more than likely the fresher of the two, chasing every ball down like he owns the court. Fed's serving & nice volleys r keeping him in it
Djokovic would have to have a major meltdown for Federer to win this. I'm hoping Federer can at least get this to a fifth set but it's not looking good at the moment.
"Radwanska, who struggled this year before a run to the Wimbledon semifinals, said that any gain in muscle could hurt her trademark speed and finesse, but she also acknowledged that how she looked mattered to her.“Of course I care about that as well, because I’m a girl,” Radwanska said. “But I also have the genes where I don’t know what I have to do to get bigger, because it’s just not going anywhere.”"I think she's saying that she's not willing to dope and look like a freak just to win slams.... And LOL @ Serena be quoted as saying she covers up her arms in public to avoid getting recognized..... There is an issue when your biceps are more recognizable than your facehttp://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/sports/tennis/tenniss-top-women-balance-body-image-with-quest-for-success.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
How silly can you be. Have you started watching tennis? At least ask your co-conspirators how fast Serena got at a point in her career. There are people who are born minuscule and bony and there is nothing they can do about it. Did Serena dope to look like this: http://www.thecoli.com/threads/serena-williams-crashes-wedding-in-a-leopard-swimsuit.219174/page-12Something is wrong with you guys
It shouldn't be possible to cover this much court on a grass court....and to still have the power once one gets there.....astonishing.
where are all the "Federer is a doper" posters now? Doesn't this final prove otherwise? Djoker never tires. He's is so juiced up and roid raging it's a black mark on the game.
The second set tiebreak took a lot out of Federer; it was evident the following two sets. Federer gets tired - unlike Djokovic.
I watched the match from start to finish, Djokovic wore Federer down. Even if we had confirmation that both were clean athletes it was the right tactic by Djokovic, he was the fitter player at the end. It could be just an age difference thing.Also coming into the match:Djokovic: 784 minutes spent on court. 12.4 km covered.Federer: 598 minutes spent on court. 10 km covered.Same scenario as last year, but Djokovic prevailed both times.
You're right. Federer didn't win to a doper. It must mean HE DIDN'T DOPE. We can also conclude that Nadal didn't dope in 2011 and 2012.
You're right, Unknown--it's as as weak an argument as your claim that Federer must be doping because he manages to compete strongly with dopers.The case against Nadal and Djokovic is based on evidence consistent with known doping patterns: inexplicable increases in power and speed; mysterious injuries and tournament withdrawals, followed by miraculous recoveries, cycles in physical attributes consistent with cycling on and off PEDs. It is not based on subjective assertions like "they have to be doping."There is no such evidence to be found against Federer. That is not proof that is not doping, but it means there is no case to be made. Claiming "well he must be doping" is just an assertion, without any evidence to support it.The premise that Federer is a supremely sneaky, subtle doper who somehow engages in extremely complex and Machiavellian maneuvers to hide the evidence of his doping, whereas his colleagues are so dumb that they can't replicate this feat, is far more complicated than the premise that he's clean. Occam's razor says that the simpler answer is the more likely.Everyone knew Armstrong was doping. It was obvious. Same with Bonds and Nadal and Djokovic. All these superdopers are always obvious.If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's most likely a duck. On this basis, we can say that Nadal and Djokovic are almost surely doping, and while it's possible that Federer is doping, that he could well be clean.
Exactly demisphere. Quite a few times today Federer didn't even run balls that Djokovic wouldn't have had any trouble reaching and hitting back cross-court and deep. Federer tries to hide his catching his breath, the camera catches it sometimes. Djokovic does the opposite, he acts like he's catching his breath all the time, then runs like a crazy rabbit for the next ten points, all the while hitting deep booming shots. Nadal too was like that every year until 2014 (from January to July only).
Demisphere laid it out better than anyone else. No one on here is saying there isn't a possibility Federer dopes, it's just that there is very little evidence to point to proving Federer is a doper. There are players out there that I feel very comfortable labeling as dopers. Federer isn't one of them.
If Federer is paying people for a doping regimen, he needs to request a full-refund.... We saw that he has some belly fat again today, when he changed his shirt after the match. Dopers just don't carry significant amounts of adipose tissue, since it's a waste of energy to transport tissue mass that is not carrying out a key function. The builds of sprinters and cyclists could not be more different, but neither have any body fat to speak of.
This defeat doesn't prove anything. Doping is no guarantee of victories exceptionally when it comes to victories against Djokovic. People on this site would wait for Venus to win a second round of a slam to say she is doping. When Serena was losing against no names in the past, did you say she wasn't doping then or these are arguments only valid to defend Federer.
I didn't feel Federer was tired by any means though. Djokovic was in control and just upped his level of play.
Eric Ed: living proof that if a a chimpanzee randomly strikes a typewriter for long enough it can create sentences.
hahahahaha, you finally lost it????
Did you guys think that if all players dope, there would be no winners? How many times have you seen any draws in tennis.
Demisphere, you must be crazy if you think that, in cycling, just Armstrong was the obvious doper. His whole team doped and most of the top doped too. Your confirmation bias is too much to even discuss with you.
Who is the poster that said the old man is going to win? What happened?
This defeat means Federer is clean? Nice way to be objective and defend a clean sport.Oh wait, you don't care.
So I guess Djoker just has better dope. Did you even watch the match? I doubt it since I'm sure you're no tennis fan.
Obviously both are doping. Was your comment supposed to annoy me?P.S. I am a tennis fan AND I play tennis. How's that relevant? I don't know.
Where have I said Federer is clean? I'm just pointing out that you just had a weak argument. Most posters here predicted a win for Djokovic. Like I said even if we had concrete proof they were both clean Djokovic would have still been the favourite. He's in his prime right now.
I was betting on the one that the ITF was betting on. If you follow the money, you catch the dopers more quickly.
Once again, a never tiring Djokovic makes a grass court look like a clay court. Surely, the transition from clay to grass which was all hyped up before the tournament by the tennis media wasn't much of an issue for the eggman. Yet again two of the biggest frauds of the sport as of now are crowned champions for another year. It's getting more and more sickening by now.
Fed: I work very hard, but so do the others, so there is no advantage there, "I would think"......It always makes me laugh that Djokovic doesn't sweat in these matches.. He can blame is next AAF on something in the Wimbledon grass he ate......
By the way, Federer fans. I'm happy he lost. Not because I don't like him. I'm happy because the ITF - just like last year - tried to push Federer down our throats the whole tournament with a ridiculous marketing campaign. Anything that hurts the corrupt ITF's interests makes me happy.
He won Wimbledon 7 times, and always plays well there. He is also considered the best tennis player ever by many. Why wouldn't they use him in their marketing?
@monochrome Indeed, some logical thought is clearly missing there.
Clearly it is missing. Who's arguing against the easy tactic to milk Federer's fame? I'm not. Anyone would do that. I'm simply against the ITF who's been complicit with dopers through generations. Haven't we argued about it repeatedly here?
Just a thought, there is now equal pay in Wimbeldon?So Serena Williams plays 1 hr 53min, two sets against a nobody. Novjak Djokovic plays 2hrs, 56mins against Roger Federar and they both get the same prize money?
To be fair, pro-sports is an entertainment industry in which athletes are paid to be good enough to be there in the big moment, and win. It's not based on how long it takes them to get the job done. In large part they are being paid for the work they do off court. If you're arguing for 'pay per minute' model, then why not more prize money for a 5 set vs a 3 set men's winner? I'd be fine with the women being required to play 5 sets in the slams, but I don't feel aggrieved that they don't. I would like a ranking system that rewarded wins against top players, though.
Your kind is almost intolerably stupid. It's not about the actualy number of sets played, but the MINIMAL number of sets needed to win.
Erik Gudris @ATNtennis Roddick complimenting Djokovic's level of fitness and endurance now. "When I played him he was full of gluten." https://twitter.com/ATNtennis/status/620271432489140224Serve to win.
I don't think Roddick is the one to talk about "gluten" (if that's the latest euphemism for PEDs). But hey, a doper knows a doper.
The reference was to Djokovic attributing his astounding career fitness turnaround to a ''gluten-free diet' (as well as sleeping in that magical pressure egg).......
Honestly, I don't think he was even thinking when he said that. It's just been accepted by all now that going "gluten free" was what transformed Djokovic into a multiple slam champion.
Djokovic is full of something, all right.In retrospect, how he managed to lose Roland Garros is beyond me.
Djokvoic lost to the "late bloomer" Wawrinka who found his tennis mojo after leaving his wife and child who were holding him back.
Indefatigable gluten-free Djokovic does it again. Hitting everything deep, even when chasing,Virtua Tennis-like. Bravo to his drug pushers and his egg chamber-owning friend in New Jersey.
It's almost like watching a tennis video game. That's what I see when I watch dopers - oops, I mean tennis players - like Djokovic play.
Let's play a mental exercise.Comment here as if Federer would have won. (aaaawkward https://vine.co/v/evpw9XreQEE)
Now now, I know that you're over joyed with this result but don't turn into a troll. We have quite a few here already.
You troll yourselves. This is supposed to be a blog for doping-related issues in tennis. Not to cheer up Roger and accuse his rivals.
And what does the above Vine have to do with doping? Is Federer exhibiting roid rage?
Just cheering you up a little bit, guys.Oh, the highlights just got uploaded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLnnOS3gnyYDid Federer run 20-25% more than Djokovic in the final like last year? It could be. He certainly tried.
To those who believe it's obvious that Federer is a doper, please answer the following:- when do you believe he started doping?- do you know of any youtube-type video evidence of the days when he would get winded during a long rally?- do you believe he was doping when he beat Sampras in 2001?- do you believe Sampras doped?
- Dunno, Perhaps most of his careers, like most sports legends.- Is that even relevant?- Perhaps, perhaps Sampras was semi-clean at the time.- Maybe. His colleague, Agassi, was a doper. Why wouldn't Sampras be one too?Besides I never saw Paul Annacone as an honest, clean guy.
Unknown, thank you for making me see the light...
I know you desire hard facts when all you provide is flimsy suspicion on your most hated individuals, but hey, this place is for speculating after all...No?
You're not even a good troll.
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Novak-Djokovic---Roger-Federer-Remembering-Their-First-Clash-articolo24972.htmlLook. The beginning of a doper.
I've told you before. You troll yourselves. You even troll this site and take aways its credibility when you're blindly defending someone because 'he doesn't looks like a doper' and because 'he lost to two dopers'.
If you, Eric Ed, and dtank77 are all multiple personalities, which one of you I wonder is the core personality. You know - "unknown" - that they can treat this now?
It's funny that the only thing it occurs to you when more than one person is disagreeing with you is "they all must be the same person".I think that's treatable too.
It's funnier that you think the rest of this blog is one person.
Where did I say that?Apart from being a narcissistic, you're illiterate too?God bless you, man.
You you really have a rather clumsy little intellect, don't you? Subtleties seemed to be wasted on you. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but "more than one person is disagreeing with you". - and Ed, and your other buddy, dtank. I guess you picked up terms like "narcissism" at your psychiatric sessions, without grasping that in your case it's self-referential.
Seems you're still lost in your own ego, huh? Ok, we're just "3 dudes" and the possibility of us being just one just stupidly crossed your mind.
Not one. Only a half. Wit.
Richard is of the lineage of the rhesus monkeys who can't count
Ed, you never fail to live up to expectations. Of course the bar is set very low for you and your pals.
I did see from the other angle. I just never thought you might be that sophisticated. You've always seem to display the intellect of an under-rated peasant
Well, we see that the Federer of 2015 is not after all the Federer of his prime years - despite an inspired semi-final. The Federer of 2007 would have beaten this Federer. Age claims its prize after all. He loses. Rather too easily in the end.The interesting question is whether the Djokovic of 2015 would have beaten the Djokovic pre-2011. Yes, since the younger Djokovic never made it to a Wimbledon final. We may see in time how the 34 year-old Djokovic fares. Like Federer? Or Serena? When will those "gluten-free" limbs cease to carry him to every ball, with an elasticity that defies conventional understanding of human anatomy? At his present age he should be at the cusp of his powers. The years should soon make their presence felt. But perhaps those rules don't apply to today's Supermen - and the Serena's of this world.
How do you know Federer would have won in his prime?
I knew you would think that. For you the 'prime' of an athlete is a 'roided 34 going on 54, particularly if they/she are built like an orangutang.
Actually, I think Fed played really well & even in his prime may have tired. The reason being is that the first two sets lasted most of the match's duration & was some of the most intense tennis I've seen from Fed. The main difference as to why he lost is that Djoker kind of players who can hit 2nd serves as good as 1st & run what would have been winners down from anywhere on the court only to hit his on winners weren't prevalent during his prime except for Nadal. And we all know his head to head vs. Nadal even in his prime! So, when he used to play at Wimbly it was actual grass court tennis that he could play & that would be enough. Nowadays, u have to literally be superhuman to take down Djoker or players who can run every shot down & have no weaknesses & rarely lose confidence & rarely tire. There are a lot more of these type of players in mass production these days probably b/c the quality of doping has improved considerably. And detection, if the ATP/ITF/ WTA ever Bother to stop being corrupt & decide to test, is much much harder these days.
Only one with "little Jenner in him" will make such a comment. You might want her to be built like a 14 year-old girl to satisfy your pedophile tendencies I guess.I don't want to start calling whites names. You guys have suffer enough for the double-loss weekend. I feel for people. So instead of a few weeks from now for another comings, we will have to wait for a few months from now. See, I have the gentlemen syndrome
There's something that I was curious about and haven't seen adressed here. When a player is following a doping regime, would his trainer be necessarily aware of what is happening. Does that mean Boris Becker is aware of any Djokovic wrong doing. Does that also mean Nadal can't risk getting another trainer to replace uncle Toni. And if the trainer is aware of what is happening, does that represent a bigger risk of the truth coming out later on or are their fates forever linked?
I think coaches are one of the most important individuals that make possible the link between a doctor/medical staff for doping purposes and the player. You can see that with weird coaches that the only thing they improve is the fitness of a player. Roger Rasheed, Magnus Norman, Becker, even Lendl/Mauresmo influence seemed a bit fishy to me. Cilic, Karlovic and Odesnik coaches are another example of pretty suspicious individuals.
And how long have you been having these dreams?
So, suddenly there's no doping in tennis?THASP would be very proud of you.http://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/July-2015/Andy-Murray-Federer-Has-Never-Served-Better.aspx
It's a reference to psychiatry. Over your head, it seems.
Again, you seem to think that only crazy people don't think like you.http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/tennis/33501607
Again, you don't seem to grasp that others here think you are a troll. It seems to escape you that only Ed the Idiot is in agreement with you. I simply take the additional effort of, in your case, calling a spade a tool. Yes, you are a tool.
Getting back to Iwan's question, my hunch would be that it's really situation dependent. If you look at Nadal, I would expect Uncle Toni is not only aware of what his nephew has taken over the years, he probably pushed him in that direction. In the case of Djokovic, I don't know that he would tell someone like Becker, because he's not someone who's been with him since the beginning, and it probably takes many years to build that kind of trust. One thing I'm not sure about, though, is how easy it would be to hide your doping habits from someone you're training with every day.
Excellent post DanM. Like you said, it depends on the situation and the level of trust the player has with their trainer or coach. Djokovic is still being coached by Marian Vajda as well as Becker and I wouldn't be surprised if Vajda knows what Djokovic is doing considering how long he has been with the Djokovic team.Becker - when he was a player - was on record as saying he would take steroids if he knew other top players were doing so & said he understood why players took steroids. So maybe he is already in the know?
Becker's doctor was the same used by Usain Bolt, the guy who is the fastest in a sport where literally everyone dopes.
Fed tired halfway through the third set, no doubt about that. Murray normally falters around there against Djokovic too. Fed showed his class in the semi, but showed his age in the final. You just can't beat a guy over five sets who doesn't tire. And Novak's smarter about his regime than Nadal. At 28, he sure looks like he's got 10 more grand slams in him. Depressing.
That's your frustration talking. Djoker has zero chance of breaking Fed's record, and I'm sure you know that as well.
I don't know about that. Who exactly is going to stop him? Will Nadal rise from the dead and have another "amazing" comeback year? Will Murray or Wawrinka show more than occasional sparks of greatness? Will a young player actually break through the stranglehold of the "Big 4"? Djokovic could easily finish the year with 10 majors. If he averages 2 per year for the next 4 years, he'll overtake Federer (assuming Fed doesn't add another himself). It's a long shot, but definitely not impossible.
Federer has already 10 Wimbledon, 5 Roland Garros and 5 Australian open titles in my book; i.e. counting the finals lost to those two out-of-this-world-Supermen-to-be-uncovered-in-twenty-years´-time
I'm not sure if you can allocate titles to the losing finalist if the winner is busted for doping offences? What happens to the opponents they doper beats in rounds 1 through the semis? I'm sure the losing quarter and semifinalists will be thinking they were robbed of a fair crack at the title too. And therein lies the problem tennis has. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be to sit down and try to unpick all Nadal's fraudulent achievements. I don't see how it is even possible. No wonder they would rather turn a blind eye.Re. Djokovic titles chase - he's won 8 slams in the last 4 and 3/4 seasons and that's with Nadal there to spoil the party. With Nadal now apparently fading, who is going to stop Novak from at least repeating that over the next 5 seasons?
Korda was busted at the 1997 Wimbledon tournament and they didn't take his 1997 Australian Open title away (although he was probably doping then as well). even though they should have. Northwestcircus is right, they'd rather turn a blind eye than deal with the headache of doling out punishment to prominent dopers.It takes a near-monumental effort to beat Djokovic these days. Wawrinka has always played Djokovic well, Nishikori had to play out of his mind to beat Djoker at the U.S. Open last year and Murray pretty much has to kill himself on court to beat Djokovic. Federer can't hang with Djokovic for a five-set match and Nadal is fading fast. Out of the youngsters coming up, Kyrgios is probably the one with the best chance but his temper prevents him from rising to the Top 10, Nishikori is injury-prone, and I just don't see any promising youngster coming up in the next few years that can beat Djokovic continuously.It's not within the realm of impossibility that Djokovic surpasses Federer, although we all thought Nadal would surpass Federer and that doesn't look like it will happen.
You people have lost your minds if you think Djoker is going to win 9 more Slams. You'd have to absolutely dominate your prime years to best Roger, and Novak did not do that, winning "only" 3 Slams between 2012 and 2014. That doomed any chance he had a chasing the Slam record. Everyone is seeing Nadal as a step slower at age 29. Well, Djoker is one year away from that. I do think he has an outside shot at catching Nadal, but that would surely have to be his ceiling.
Shame about the responses on that article. People would rather just bury their heads in the sand I guess. It seems only a very small minority of people even consider that tennis players could be doping. I wonder if cycling fans were this blind once upon a time.
It tells more about him than about Serena. They tend to support athletes as long as they are not white. But this is the first time someone is accusing his countryman of doping while not pointing out others. As you all can see, he didn't seem concerned about anyone else other than the black female in a sport where there are freaks all across the board. Those who have the ability to understand can understand.
Name one other player with panic room, phantom restaurant and other such episodes and (very) late career dominance the likes of which we are seeing here. the fact that she happens to be black is a complete and utter red herring. That gives no cover for such extraordinary circumstances. I guess you're OK with the general consensus that most sprinters likely dope, despite the majority of them being black? I can only imagine weight in numbers must quash your questionable, racial based stance and explanation.Regardless, when there is an elephant in the room, it is going to be sensible to target that through discussion the most. Armstrong got taken down because people talked about Armstrong, regardless of the work done probing the sports other achievers (regarding their own illegitimacy, at least).If Serena was white, EVERYONE on here would be saying the same damned thing.Except you.
My support for Serena is not based on race, but the hate for Serena is. I provided plenty of arguments as to why these bogus incidents have nothing doping related behind them. Don't stop thinking. What kind of doping would cut your feet. If that was likely, would you show to other athletes like Serena did? Remember she has made all kinds of claims to pull out tournaments before. The sprinters dope to beat other black sprinters. I always thought Lebron, Wade, and Kobe dope and they look black to me. I don't defend Serena for being black.
@Eric Ed,I take your accusations of racism personally, and I don't appreciate it. The vast majority of people here, including me, treat Serena no differently than Nadal. For me, being suspicious of Serena has nothing to do with race, it has to do with her Lance Armstrong-like dominance at a pretty advanced age and several other suspicious facts, which we've debated again and again. By the way, Lance Armstrong is white, Djokovic is white, Murray is white, Federer is white. All are fair game for skeptics like us to wonder about.What makes you think we are going after Serena because she's black?
BTW, I don't think anyone is saying that her cutting her foot was caused by PEDs. What we're saying is that the story was suspect to begin with (how did glass go through the soles of her shoes/sandals)? And regardless, the pulmonary embolism presumably could have been caused by abuse of PEDs (rather than the foot surgery).In general, I question Serena's credibility. Even you have admitted that her "virus" explanation for her bizarre Wimbledon episode was probably a cover-up for something she took. And the "panic room" incident speaks for itself. It's possible she really thought it was an intruder, but it's just as possible she panicked because she knew she had illegal substances in her system.I do agree that, from the (somewhat incomplete) evidence presented in the previous post, her serve speeds do not show a general upward trend over the years. They simply made a shocking spike this year. I'm not sure what exactly that says about her current and past doping, but it raises a red flag for me nonetheless.
Dan, before reading the remaining of your comments. When I am making accusations of racism, I don't necessarily mean on this blog
Dan, you are probably too young in age or young to tennis (excuse me if I am wrong). Do you know the miseries the williams went through over the years just because they are black.Why would I make exception when the majority hate her because of her race. Why would the embolism start right after multiple foot surgeries? She has been in the our since may be 1998. Then she never had embolism till her foot surgery and the embolism happens right after multiple foot surgeries. Who told you the glass cut through her shoes?For the panic attack, why can't she just say she is not home.What I know is that in life you tend to go for the higher probability. When you need to go for the least likely scenario to make a case, people are going to question your objectives and what made you so sure in the first place.I have no single doubt in my mind that the foot injury and the subsequent pulmonary embolism are not related to doping.Regarding the Wimbledon incident, I can't certify it was not related to doping. But if that were the case, wouldn't Venus have panicked. Why was she so serene? For the panic room incident, I would never buy it because of the end of season timing and the next match beng 3 months. Atheles rest their body and Serena who is said to hate training wouldn't be doping for no reason.
How did the glass cut so powerfully into her if she didn't actually step on it. Was she not wearing shoes? There are just holes in the story that seem to have never been explained. Does this prove she's doping? No, but it adds to a pattern of bizarre circumstances with flimsy explanations and a general lack of credibility.As for your defense of the "panic room" incident, I don't buy that athletes don't train in the off-season, and I don't buy that athletes would dope only during competition. As I said, it's possible she was not training, clean, and genuinely thought it was an intruder, but it's definitely another occurrence that raises a red flag for me.As for your thoughts about racism in general, yes, I'm sure there are people who hate Serena Williams because she's black and will do anything to bring her down. I'm also sure there are people who hate her because of some of the things she's said over the years. I'm sure there are some people who are jealous of her because she's been so dominant. And I'm sure there are some people who just plain think she's cheating for factual reasons and like/hate/white/black doesn't come into it. I think most of the people who comment here are in the last category.Personally, I have always liked Venus and I have always been not too crazy about Serena. The reason is that I watched too many interviews over the years where Serena appeared to be a sore loser and exhibit poor sportsmanship. I never felt this way about Venus. Venus just seemed like the nicer sister. That said, I accept that Venus may be no cleaner than her sister when it comes to PEDs, and I would view evidence for or against her no differently than with Serena. Anyway, the bottom line is that I'm judging the Williams sisters not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I'm sure there are others who have judged them and will continue to judge them by the color of their skin, and that's wrong, but it doesn't make every white critic of a black athlete racist.
I didn't say athletes don't dope in the off-season. I believe the incident occurs in September and there was an end of year tournament that Serena didn't qualify for. Why would someone train in September or October when the season starts in January.I never really got this. What does someone not giving credit to opponents have to do with doping. Do you truly believe if Serena was beating black athletes and wasn't giving them credits, whites would be so offended? Do you think if Serena had beaten a black athlete that guy would have posted that twitter about serena using steroids?If Venus doesn't have behavioral issues, why was she hated that much and her unforced errors applauded when she was playing Kim at the US open a few years back?I only judge by what I see. Dan, because a story doesn't add up doesn't mean a person is doping. If you agree that doping can't cut your feet, why do you need to bring the same story back over and over. Your goal should not be to prove at all cost that Serena is doping but rather to prove that through a proper argument based on what uou and everyone can see. Creating a perfect case scenario to accuse someone of something doesn't make you impartial
> Your goal should not be to prove at all cost that Serena is dopingI've been the one saying there are good arguments being made on both sides of the issue, I just think the preponderance of the evidence is that Serena is not clean. By no means have I set out to prove Serena is doping. I frankly hope she's not.> I believe the incident occurs in SeptemberI don't know if all tennis players rest in September. You might be right, but I don't think you can just assume that.> What does someone not giving credit to opponents have to do with doping.I didn't say that or even imply that. I was just explaining why I don't like her as much as her sister. Again, I'm not on a mission to discredit Serena. I am concerned about the sport and want it to be clean, and I think Serena is on the list of suspects.
The issue Dan is that with the way you assume things, everyone can make tons of baseless accusations. I can say Djokovic is cheating on his wife, or anything. If you are truly looking for the truth, you will not be speculating about private matters that can have thousand of justifications. You should just tell me we see all these in common between this guy and Serena. When it comes to signs we can all see and analyze, no arguments are put forth against Serena. So, it just seems convenient to focus on stuff nobody can see and made claims based on it.It is very hard to convince you because you give more consideration to low percentage events. Why would a multi slam winner who hates practicing be training when the season just ended and the next match is 3 months away? A player who is not good can train in September. Someone who participate to multiple tournaments and skipped the smaller ones just to focus on the big ones would not have a clear motive to prepare 3 months in advance.If you don't know something for sure, you can't say there is a 5% of chance that someone committed a crime therefore his is the criminal.the issue is Nadal said at one time if he trained properly, he would beat Roger consistently and had on court scene that would make Tarzan proud but you don't see anyone deviating from the doping subject to talk about Nadal behavior. The only person who is seen as a role model is Roger and he is a phony ass who told Djokovic's parents to be quiet and made reference to Djokovic relatively poor upbringing. If it were Serena, the whole word would still be talking about it.
@Eric Ed,It's totally disingenuous to imply that I'm just making baseless accusations. Providing factual circumstantial evidence is the *exact opposite* of a baseless accusation.> Why would a multi slam winner who hates practicing be training when the season just ended and the next match is 3 months away?Seeing you claim that so many times finally inspired me to look it up. The incident occurred October 26, 2011 (http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/02/serena-williams-panic-room-drug-test-urine/). She played her next tournament January 1, 2012 in Brisbaine. So, probably less than 9 weeks before she traveled to Australia. Sounds like a pretty reasonable time to do some weight training to me (i.e., not a "low-percentage event"). As for Serena hating to practice, (1) that doesn't mean she doesn't practice and (2) if she in fact doesn't practice very much, that's a great argument *in favor* of her being a doper.
You are making baseless accusations. I heard many players say they start training a month before the season begins. So 9 weeks seem a bit too long for a lazy player to me. So the season ends in september 2011 and she already starts training and doping before October 26. Just about 6 weeks vacation while players wanted a longer off season, Serena with her star life and commitment would rather have a 6 weeks off and train for 9 weeks for a meaningless tournament before the major itself which started on January 16th which makes it a week short of 3 months.Even though she could have claimed that she wasn't home, she decided to make a huge circus about it and even though she didn't refuse to take the test, she must be guilty of doping because she was scared of a potential intruder knowing that she already had to deal. with one who got in trouble with the police for it.Nope. Highly unlikely. Her 2011 season started in June due to her health issues so we couldn't even say it was likely she already missed 2 out of competition tests unless there are data that can prove otherwise. I just don't see that scenario
Players even take a week break between the french and Wimbledon and only trained for a week but somehow Serena who is by far better than anyone else on the tour would need 3 months to prepare for the Australian Open.
Players who need to better their skills because they are not doing well in their careers can do that. Not the number one of all time
Okay, so Serena is just lazy and thinks training is for suckers. She's obviously mastered tennis and doesn't have any need to improve, keep her skills sharp, or even lift weights. She's just that good.Meanwhile, every other woman is working her ass off doing on-court drills, off-court drills, footwork drills, hitting the gym, stretching, getting deep tissue massages, you name it, and they can't even come close to the level of Serena.And that is your sure-fire proof that Serena must not be doping?> even though she didn't refuse to take the testAs far as I can tell, there's been no explanation either way about whether another tester was sent to get a sample, but by then, it would be too late because she could have already taken something to mask the PEDs.
I posted 2 links on the next thread. Read them to see if their workout philosophy is how to look skinny and be looked at as a girl. So, you think she was going to plan for another teste provided the testers don't know that an experienced doper would know how to mask whatever they take. Where did I say Serena doesn't train. I said she doesn't need train 3 months for the Australian Open at 30 years old. There are many players who are injured the AO and who spend only 2 weeks to train before the competition. They don't need to train 3 months for it. Again I heard many players saying they start train a month in advance of the Australian Open. So I can't assume Serena would be training 3 months in advance.Do the other girls look like they workout for you. I mean how do they do it? By looking in the mirror to see if they are still skinny?
Wait, so you think tennis players only train for the next event? You don't think they train to become better and more fit tennis players in general?
Those who need it will do it. They already play from January to October.Why train from October to December. When you overwork your muscles, you risk injuries.
Okay, so Federer is not a doping suspect because his performance doesn't vary significantly over the course of a year. Yet, since 2011, Djokovic has had no major lapses nor had any significant absences from the tour, yet he's considered an obvious doper. Most people will point out that he didn't exhibit nearly his current astounding level of fitness pre-2011 and make fun of him for crediting his gluten-free diet, but that still doesn't explain why only some dopers need to cycle and others can apparently stay juiced all year long.
Federer is less of a doping suspect than many because he doesn't exhibit extreme physical characteristics; by which I mean he is not extraordinarily powerful, nor does he have unusual stamina - athough he is very quick (and always has been), and his physique has not changed . He may occasionally reproduce some of his form of his better years - but generally now only on faster surfaces, where the points can be kept short. An interesting indicator is that there are no figures from Hawkeye showing that either his serving speeds or groundstroke power have changed over his career. Where he varies is his accuracy and consistency. The timing can completely go.Djokovic is an interesting case. He is consistency personified, in both style of game and his results. His form doesn't vary much over the year. Other suspects show, as you say, evidence of 'cycling' - especially Nadal. We can only speculate that if Djokovic is doping why he doesn't demonstrate this characteristic. It may be that as regards doping there is no "one size fits all" - different ped's will affect players differently. Also, it seems from both his physique and his ball-striking that Djokovic would not dope for power so much as stamina: Nadal would appear to dope for both.The red flag for Novak has to be the sudden increase in his stamina - and power, to some extent - from 2011 onwards. I can see that eradicating an allergy will turn a very good athete into a better athlete. But not a superman. Based on what top athletes have shown over previous decades, his stamina is virtually off the chart. He can never be fatigued in a long match, now matter how physically draining it would be. His recovery is fantastic. (We see that Federer's recovery from his semi-final appears decidedly mortal.)Before 2011 Novak was a confirmed no.3. - knocking at the door but unable to get through. He was - as he described himself - "solid". He could do everything well but nothing outstandingly well. But he would certainly tire - which you might expect from a counterpuncher's style of play. What he has done from 2011 is preserve the same stye of play - solid in every department - but raise its level several notches. Most conspicuously, he has eradicated fatigue as a significant factor in his performances. I have never seen a top player in any previous generation metamorphose mid-career, as he has. Now we are seeing it all the time. The question remains - how do they do it? And why are some seemingly able to do it all year round but not others?
Beautiful response, thank you. I appreciate you acknowledging that eliminating an allergen could explain *some* of his improvement. It bothers me when people dismiss that out of hand, yet I have never felt it was the whole story. I think his metamorphosis is a combination of the gluten-free diet, the egg chamber, and some kind of PEDs to bring his fitness from very good to out of this world.And, yes, it does make sense that Nadal uses PEDs not just for endurance, but for strength as well. I don't recall him tiring during,say, the Asian swing, but he has typically appeared less explosive in his movements and shots during that time of year. It could be that he's backed off on that part of his regime altogether in the last year or two, perhaps due to a health scare or something else. Interestingly, Tennis Channel aired a documentary on Nadal a month or two ago, and I recall someone from Nadal's camp saying they felt he was carrying around more than optimal muscle mass, particularly in his back. I guess they now think they went too far with the 'roids?
Richard, do you remember when Federer lost to Marat Safin in the Australian Open semi-finals and said he was extremely fatigues and therefore needed to increase his stamina and since then has never showed any real sign of fatigue? Like you said, doping affects players differently and it is possible that Federer is just not a physical specimen. Remember they switch from serve and volley to baseline rallies and that hugely increases the amount of court coverage. How about Fed run of consecutive semi finals, 12 titles a year, etc. When has he shown that he was fatigued? Tiring against Nadal is not an adequate parameter. The only time he tired against Murray was after that marathon semi-final against Del potro. Federer never tires against anyone not named Nadal. He may exhibit a drop in intensity here and there against Djokovic but he has more stamina than anyone not named Nadal or Djokovic. I mean Troiki was seemingly doping but he was tiring as well. Doping doesn't mean you can't tire. Djokovic looked tired against Wawrinka. Does it mean he didn't dope during the French Open?
Nadal was more tired against Djokovic in 2011 at Rome and Madrid than Federer has ever been and no one thought at the time Nadal wasn't doping
Dan, the hate for Serena started way early and it was because of her race. The on court incident only provided justification her haters have been waiting for all along. Watch youtube videos of an injured Venus with bandage around the knees being booed and her errors being applauded while she was playing on the American soil. In the history of human kind, there was no such things ever recorded and you want me to make exception. You should know by now I know there are people who just want to denounce a potential doper, but it doesn't mean this relatively small group should help clean up the image of the majority.
Good discussion. (Apart from Eric ed, making little sense as usual.)
Federer who was outlast by Marat Safin at a younger age became tireless and made Andy Murray look asthmatic at 34 years old. That's a defintion of turn of events
How did Federer make Andy Murray look asthmatic at 34? He got through him in straight sets with astonishing serving and first strike tennis. You talk as if it was some 5 set epic with Andy wilting or something.
Is that why Murray was out of breath? Nadal couldn't stay on his feet after 3 sets against Djokovic. It is not how many sets but the level and intensity of the game could tire palyers as well. Was it an epic 5 sets when people were claiming that Federer was tired against Djokovic?
What happened to the blog archive menu? it seems to have disappeared.It made things easier when one wanted to find and read previous entries.
Yes very strange and i thought there would have been a thread on the David Frum's twitter gaff.
Q&A with Craig Reedie, WADA president....http://espn.go.com/extra/panamgames/story/_/id/13243501/pan-games-world-anti-doping-agency-president-sir-craig-reedie-state-sport
I wonder what TUE(s) our gluten-free friend's on these days? He rarely misses returns, runs down everything and returns them with interest. He's built like a cyclist and is not immune to 'roid raging, screaming at ball kids, ripping off shirt, screaming at fans - pretty bizarre.BTW - what happened to the magnet therapy doc he had? He was the one that was responsible for the 2011 surge if I remember correctl
Eric, you may want to know that Fed's 5-set record against the big 3 is not that good. He's 2-3 against Nadal (victories in 2004 and at Wimbledon after a favourable draw), 0-3 against Djokovic and 0-1 against Murray. That's not very impressive. I also remember the 5 set defeat against Delpo in the US Open of 2009. I'd say Feds stamina is one of his weak points against top players.Concerning Serena..., it's not racism. She never gives credit to the other player when she loses and her attitude seems phony. There are also too many scandals: the mystery foot injury in the restaurant that doesn't exist, the panic room, the collapse at Wimbledon... it's a long list. If racism were to blame, someone has to explain to me why Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan were so popular for a long time.Concerning Djokovic: I think it's possible that a change a diet can have a huge impact. He could be clean at the moment. However, I do not believe in the AU Open final in 2012. 5h53min at that pace. Sorry, I don't buy it.
Federer plays with one hand against players who use 2 hand backhand. First, you can't use records against Djokovic and Nadal are a reference for what argument mainly because they are untouchable inthe stamina department and second because it is not because you lose that you did so because od lack of stamina. But even then, if you paid attention to the scores, you would notice that Federer is never run over in the 5th set. You can't tell me he's lost 5-7 or 6-8 because in the 5th set because of your lack of stamina. He lost focus against del potro. Not every loss is tied to fatigue. Why don't you look at his overall 5 set record and his overall record against Nadal and Djokovic?
"But even then, if you paid attention to the scores, you would notice that Federer is never run over in the 5th set."+++IIRC, in the last few years, he has been quite bad in fifth sets against either Djokovic, Murray and Nadal.
Very strange reasoning. I can't use his record against Djokovic and Nadal because they have better stamina...? "He lost focus against Del Potro." How the hell do you know that? Are you his coach?Anyway, his overall 5 set record is not good. It's 55,56%, compared to 68.42% (Murray), 70.83% (Djokovic) and 76.19% (Nadal). "He was never run over in the 5th set." Seriously, Eric? Am I the only one who checks facts here?He lost 17 5-set matches. Three times he lost the 5th set with 6-1, three times 6-2. We can agree on one fact. He has by far the worst 5-set record of the big four. People notice these things, you know.
I meant he was never run over against the top players. Lets check few facts here:Against Nadal, Federer won 6-1 in Miami 2005 and 6-2 at Wimbledon 2008.He lost 6-7 in Rome 2006, 7-9 at Wimbledon 2008, and 2-6 in Australian Open 2009.Against Djokovic, Federer lost 5-7 in 2010 US Open, 5-7 in 2011 US Open, and 4-6 at Wimbledon 2014.If that is a proof of fatigue, then we need to redefine the word altogether.Also when you are going, the doping affects you differently. It is not designed to make you younger, just to increase your abilities.
More news:Roger beat Roddick 16-14 at Wimbledon 2009, beat Nabaldian 7-6 in Shangai 2005 and lost to him in Paris 2005.Now I get it. He would probably have won 14 - 2 in the 5th set if he wasn't fatigued.
Wait till Nadal and Djokovic reach 34 years old to compare their 5 set winning percentages
Regarding Serena, I am not going to keep arguing about the off -court gossip. You're probably new to tennis because anyone who has been watching for a long time knows the hatred for them was primarily racist and as she moved along, people have been looking for arguments to avoid being perceived as racist based on their criticism. Venus gives credit to her opponents but she is hated a lot. The thing is whites in general feel that they should be in control of others existence and when you defy them like Richard williams has done and won, they will be hating you for life. It is not to say that anyone who hates Serena does so because of her race. You jave to understand that if you belong to an environment, you are going to see a lot of things as normal because you can't just wake up to criticize the people who look like you. What I see from whites is that they tend to be in profound denial for the most part. Don't get me wrong, I am very fair by nature and I give the benefit of a doubt to evryone. But I observe white people for long enough to realize that they fear criticism. I have seen them enough there are exceptions but exceptions are not rules. The first black athletes were hated. It's just became accepted over time. Jordan is the best of all time in a black dominated sport. Tiger Woods is a pet who hates his race and has a thing for blondes and tolerates racial insults and the white audience likes that type of blacks. The Williams sisters never accepted being mistreated and were hated for it. They are the first to dominate a white female sport and if there are more blacks in the future, they will be more accepted.
> The thing is whites in general feel that they should be in control of others existenceSo the racist is you. Now I understand.> You're probably new to tennisI grew up watching Navratilova and McEnroe.> anyone who has been watching for a long time knows the hatred for them was primarily racistWhat I *know* is that racism exists. I also know that Richard Williams was accused of predetermining who would be the winner between the two sisters. I don't know if those making these accusations were motivated by race. That's a hard thing to determine without knowing something about those people. Statistically, I'm sure some of them were motivated primarily by race and some weren't. Would those accusations have been made if they were white sisters? I honestly don't know. The situation is unprecedented.> It is not to say that anyone who hates Serena does so because of her race.I'm glad you believe that. (Also, I don't *hate* Serena...I don't consider her an enemy. I'm just not not a fan.)
Making a statement doesn't make one a racist if the statement is accurate. If you were not white, you would understand. If you grew up watching mc Enroe and Navratilova and your only example of racism towards Serena is based on Richards deciding who will be the winner of their matches, it shows I and you are not talking about the same Serena. Even Hamilton in Formula 1 though he is biracial was hated when he started winning. Serena's case is not an isolated one.You guys just happen to fall in a reality and you happen to borrow from others behavior. Nadal never gives credit to anyone since he always add but he was injured. He curse umpires, request that they don't officiate his matches, stopped his friendship with Djokovic because he started losing to him, with all his other on court antics. I mean the list is endless but you don't see anyone except Federer fans talking about Nadal behavior as a big issue. So why everyone talk about Serena in terms of behavior? At the beginning they didn't have the behavior argument so they were insulting them any chance they got. Then there was the behavior argument and it served as a cover up and more valid. It removes the racist argument and makes the criticism much more valid. Then some of you guys think it is valid because you live among your people and you are not used to different point of view. Criticizing a player for their behavior is done to everyone who misbehaves. Stigmatizing a player and rendering all their accomplishments null based on it is not innocent. You're probably familiar with the slavery excuse, "Africans sold their own brothers". It may sound great but the issue is why Michael Vick was crucified for killing his dogs. He is still hated today but whites always feel blacks should get over slavery right. The question is why Africans sold their own brothers should be valid in the first place if the criticism was directed at the treatment they received from slave owners. Would anyone complain about slavery if slaves were not treated as animals and dies within a relatively short period of time. If they were already dead im Africa, would they have been sold? I am not making an argument about slavery in general but I am just snowing you how whites have always cleverly run away from their own nature and accusations directed at them. I do acknowledge I use hate loosely.
Are you for real Eric?? "The thing is whites in general feel that they should be in control of others existence" Do you actually believe this enough to demean yourself, others and those who are reading it?Such a cheap shot to drive home a point, proves two things1 - You are troll and will post almost anything to bait comments and reactions.2 - You suffer terribly from ethnocentrism and if so i feel sorry for you.
Obviously the youngsters would feel they are being reasonable by saying Africans sold their own brothers and that Serena is hated because of her behavior and it doesn't make them racist, but the truth of their matter if they don't make the effort to see the double standard and dissociate themselves from it, those who judge them will put them in the same category with the racists. I might need to point out that I put prejudice, bigotry, bias in the same category as racism.
G Murph. The issue is have you ever been non whites? If not how would you know? May be you are not like that so you think others are not like that. May be sometimes I generalize a little too much and you guys are offended by that comment, disregard it and keep reading.
G Murph, I have been on many sites like ESPN back in the days out of 10s of thousands of comments regarding Serena, 95% was racial. I don't think the posters were paid to do so and what I read is what I used for my judgement. I do give benefits of a doubt to everone and that is why I said before that those who post on this website don't do so because of racism.I use whites a lot. It doesn't mean all whites but I mean, nobody ever said some blacks. People will say the French fans are rude. They won't say some of the French fans are rude even though there is a portion of the public that can't be categorized that way
> I do give benefits of a doubt to everone and that is why I said before that those who post on this website don't do so because of racism.I you think that, then why do you think racism is relevant to the discussion of whether Serena is doping or not?
You may have misunderstood me but my statements about racism are not directed to those on this website. It was rather towards the general audience. I was just making a point that the hatred against Serena from the past generation and all that was based on racism. Why would I be giving ESPN blog and incidents in stadium if I was referring to this site. I am talking about in general.
I get that, but I don't understand why you would bring it up in this forum, which is about doping in tennis. If this were THARP (Tennis Has a Racism Problem), then I would understand.
I don't know what the link was supposed to change about my stance. I knew that already.
I actually wasn't trying to change your stance, but I think what's interesting is that even Venus and Serena initially downplayed the notion that the fans were angry because of racial bias. More likely, the fans were angry because they didn't believe Venus was really injured (and thought it was meddling by Richard Williams). There is Richard Williams' claim that someone yelled racist remarks at him, but that doesn't condemn the whole stadium.
Listen,Eric,we do not belong on this site.Leave these people on their steroid island.They are irrelevant and invisible.As far as Serena they can't touch her with a 10 foot pole and will never tarnish her legend.She is a pioneer like Ali and Jackie and an inspiration to women and children all over the world.You know the saying Sticks and Stones etc. etc.Go to Tennis.Com where the real tennis fans are.These people act like they could have been tennis pros if it wasn't for doping.Most of them are arrogant but harmless but this guy Richard,I hope somebody rips him a new asshole real soon.I'm out for good.
dtank, don't bother with Richard. He gets emotional and resorts to insults since he is not very bright. It is not his fault
Now I am really hurt. Can you give me one of your Serena posters? You know - the one you have on your bedroom ceiling?
All this animosity aside,you are the funniest poster I have ever read.Your insults are hilarious.Could not stop laughing.You had me rolling on the floor.It is what it is.I root for her,you don't.It's cool.
We must have a drink sometime. But we won't talk about Serena. Instead I will tell you how much I admired the great Arthur Ashe.
Breakingnews: Djokovic sells tennis shoes sponsored by Adidas on his website without his secret insoles!!1) Here are his secret insoles: Novak Djokovic’s Israeli connection(Video) No. 1 ranked Serbian tennis player reaches every ball on court, even when it requires doing an incredible split. Israelis behind new king of tennis reveal secrets of his success....http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4093777,00.html2) Here are the tennis shoes sponsored by Adidas which are sold on his website without his secret insoleshttp://store.novakdjokovic.com/en/tennis-wear/footwear.htmlIn other words, people pay 100 euros and more to buy them and believe in playing tennis with his same tennis shoes but it isn't true at all !!He even said that all the profits from sales from his website are donated to charity!!No further comment is necessary!!Best regards.FabricePS obviously, he is not the only one who cheats, he is in good company!! Too much money at stake in popular professional sports and too many spineless journalists make up a deadly mix for any kind of truth!!
I remember one female player who was booed off court. Yes, I'm talking about Hingis (against Graf). She was only 18 at the time. Does this mean the French are racist against the Swiss? Lendl wasn't like at all... Why was that?Li Na was a very popular player. Is racism only directed at blacks?This racism claim by social justice warriors is starting to get predictable and boring.
You just came on earth? First the French are jealous of anyone successful. Second ,if I remember coorectly, there was some bathroom break and some Hingis complaints to the empire. I didn't blame the Wimbledon public applauding on Serena's double faults and unforced errors on racism. It is just a lack of fair play. I do believe their fans were the first to start saying the Williams brothers when Serena was playing and they managed to make her cry on TV.Please don't compare Serena's boos to Hingis boos. There is nothing in common
Bigot Frenchophobe! How dare you paint an entire people with broad strokes like that! Lol, the social justice warrior mentality is a thing of beauty.
Yes the Hingis FO final was brutal - i've seen nothing comparable to it in Tennis so far. And YES! i've seen IW final.One thing i don't get the french crowd booed Serena and had her in tears etc both on court and in the media conference afterwards... yet she went back the following year but she boycotted Indian Wells for ten years for the same reason... a little confusing.
Oh Eric... "First the French are jealous of anyone successful." Seriously? Have you heard about this swiss guy who won 17 grand slams, including Rolland garros. He beat 11 French players on RR since 2006, yet he is hugely popular. He's as Swiss as the Swiss miss.Concerning sports in Europe: ask any Chelsea fan what he thinks about Didier Drogba and visit the tour the France to hear the cheers for Teklehaimanot, the first black African rider in the polka dot jersey. Remember: whatever the outcome, remind all white supporters they are racists, no matter their behaviour.I have thought about taking your comments seriously, but you opened my eyes. Thanks a lot!
Don't act as if you don't know what I am talking about. These same French couldn't support Monfils when the whole wolrd was cheering for him. Some of the commentators would point out how surprised they were at how little love Monfils got from the french fans. As far as I am concerned, you get the credit you deserve. I know about Drogba. For me, rules are nott exceptions and vice versa. You act as if I have any interest in wrongly accusing people of racism.Tell me in which country you see a politicak figure accusing fellow country women of doping while closing eyes on other potential dopers. Could you imagine a swiss, a serbian or a scottish polical figure accuse Roger, Djokovic, or Murray of doping? You see how spaniards treat Nadal? Only in the US, you will see that but it is mainly because when you are black, you are not a true citizen.
The Hingis final was brutal because she was crying on the court and on her mommy. The French Open is a major and the issue Serena faced was nothing compared to the agitation of Indian Wells fans.
Picassowhat. What do you know about the French?
Of course the French will like Federer. He speaks french and it makes them feel like one of their own.They have been looking for heros and Gasquet has reached heights unseen in terms of his consistency if failures. You see the British celebrate Murray, right? When you are in desperation mode, you lose your sense of clarity.
It was sarcastic Eric. I don't care about anyone saying anything about different cultures. People are too uptight and PC these days. But one should be able to criticize black Americans all they want without being accused of racism. That's a common shutdown tactic these days, accusing someone of being a -ist or a -phobe. I can't stand that stuff.
As long as you criticize the more obvious dopers like Fed, nobody will see it as racism. I still can't comprehend how an American crowd would root against an injured, wobbling Venus.
Hands up those who would give Ed the time of day if he bailed them up at a dinner party.("Er, excuse me, Ed, but I think my wife is signalling we have to leave"...)
"Only in the US, you will see that but it is mainly because when you are black, you are not a true citizen."Eric, do you remember who took down Lance Armstrong? He was white, rich and extremely popular.Your lack of knowledge is painful.
Was he a political figure? The French caught Armstrong doping many many years before any effort was made in the US. In the mean time Armstrong received all the awards any other athlete can only dream of. Where are Serena's? She can't even find sponsors. Don't sell me that
Was a bit puzzled when in his on-court victory speech, Djokovic said he'd be celebrating later with a beer and wine. I know he doesn't have the more serious coeliac disease but he claims Dr Cetojevic discovered he was gluten intolerant back in 2010. Beer is a big no no for anyone with gluten intolerance. Was this a slip up?
Can somebody tell Eric Ed to quit his asinine ni66er babble? Thanks.
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